Are racism and homophobia equal evils?
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  Are racism and homophobia equal evils?
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Author Topic: Are racism and homophobia equal evils?  (Read 1660 times)
buritobr
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« on: July 10, 2016, 05:14:49 PM »

I think it is not hard to understand that racism and homophobia are evils.

There are the ones who consider that both are equal evils. There are the ones who agree that both are evil, but consider that racism is worse.

We hear sometimes "I tolerate gays, but we should respect the ones who have different opinion". But we seldom hear "I tolerate blacks, but we should respect the ones who have different opinion". Maybe there is a belief that disliking homosexuals is OK because choices like sexual orientation, religion and political views can be cricticized. But the color of the skin is not a choice. This is a misleading view, considering that sexual orientation is not a choice too.
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SNJ1985
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« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2016, 06:00:51 PM »

The homosexual lifestyle is definitely a choice. Homosexuals choose to engage in sexual relations with each other, go to gay bars, march in gay pride parades, etc.
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TDAS04
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« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2016, 06:39:32 PM »

Yes, but it depends on the extent of the bigotry in each individual case.  Opposing gay marriage is not the same as killing someone because of race, because the right to life is more important than the right to marriage.  However, killing someone because of an uncontrollable sexual orientation is equal to killing someone for the color of their skin.  Hating gays is just as evil as hating blacks. 

People are born with their sexual orientation, just as they are born with their race.  People who say being gay is a choice are dead wrong. There is no rational reason to support laws that discourage homosexuality any more than there are any rational reasons to deny blacks equal rights in society.
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ElectionsGuy
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« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2016, 08:01:32 PM »

I think it is not hard to understand that racism and homophobia are evils.

There are the ones who consider that both are equal evils. There are the ones who agree that both are evil, but consider that racism is worse.

We hear sometimes "I tolerate gays, but we should respect the ones who have different opinion". But we seldom hear "I tolerate blacks, but we should respect the ones who have different opinion". Maybe there is a belief that disliking homosexuals is OK because choices like sexual orientation, religion and political views can be cricticized. But the color of the skin is not a choice. This is a misleading view, considering that sexual orientation is not a choice too.

This is mostly used in cases of gay marriage, which one can argue that a person can oppose gay marriage without being entirely homophobic. Rarely do people think gay people should be treated as an inferior people (as was the case with black people pre-1950's). But to answer the question, I would say racism is worse, because you can tell someone's skin color pretty easily, whereas you have no idea about sexual orientation unless the person told you or are giving obvious clues (holding hands with the same sex, etc.). This makes the discrimination easier with race. Plus sexual orientation is a lot more complicated to understand, a person's race is literally just their appearance.

The homosexual lifestyle is definitely a choice. Homosexuals choose to engage in sexual relations with each other, go to gay bars, march in gay pride parades, etc.

Question: Did you choose to just be attracted to girls one day? Did you just wake up one day and think to yourself 'I'm going to fall in love with this beautiful girl today'?
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SNJ1985
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« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2016, 08:53:20 PM »
« Edited: July 10, 2016, 08:58:32 PM by Thomas from NJ »

The homosexual lifestyle is definitely a choice. Homosexuals choose to engage in sexual relations with each other, go to gay bars, march in gay pride parades, etc.

Question: Did you choose to just be attracted to girls one day? Did you just wake up one day and think to yourself 'I'm going to fall in love with this beautiful girl today'?

I said that the homosexual lifestyle is a choice. I was referring to the actions that homosexuals engage in, which I gave examples of. They choose to do those things.

How you act in response to your thoughts and feelings is a matter of choice.
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Blue3
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« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2016, 10:58:25 PM »

The homosexual lifestyle is definitely a choice. Homosexuals choose to engage in sexual relations with each other, go to gay bars, march in gay pride parades, etc.
Most gay people don't go to gay bars or gay pride parades. Most of them aren't promiscuous either.

And homosexuality is about innate desire.
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Goldwater
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« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2016, 11:44:40 PM »

The homosexual lifestyle is definitely a choice. Homosexuals choose to engage in sexual relations with each other, go to gay bars, march in gay pride parades, etc.

Question: Did you choose to just be attracted to girls one day? Did you just wake up one day and think to yourself 'I'm going to fall in love with this beautiful girl today'?

I said that the homosexual lifestyle is a choice. I was referring to the actions that homosexuals engage in, which I gave examples of. They choose to do those things.

How you act in response to your thoughts and feelings is a matter of choice..

So, wouldn't having sex with the opposite sex be choosing to engage in a heterosexual lifestyle?  Why should one be condemned and not the other?
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2016, 12:09:06 AM »

Why does this matter, hate/prejudice is still hate/prejudice.

The actions regarding that prejudiced hatred are for more important than the identity of the prejudice itself.
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ingemann
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« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2016, 06:14:29 PM »

I would say that homophobia are much worse. People can't help being racist, it's part of the human condition, the only true non-racist are people who suffer from either a birth defect or are brain damaged. On the other hand homophobia is fully a choice, there's nothing in our biology which should make us hate or fear homosexuals.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2016, 06:41:16 PM »

It's not a fycking game.
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2016, 10:47:10 PM »

I would say that homophobia are much worse. People can't help being racist, it's part of the human condition, the only true non-racist are people who suffer from either a birth defect or are brain damaged. On the other hand homophobia is fully a choice, there's nothing in our biology which should make us hate or fear homosexuals.

False!

We "Other" anyone beyond ourselves for bad or for ill if things go unchecked, it's simply the nature of pride in the human condition to do that.

This is precisely why the actions are important and silly hypotheticals like this are ultimately pointless.
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« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2016, 07:30:43 AM »

The homosexual lifestyle is definitely a choice. Homosexuals choose to engage in sexual relations with each other, go to gay bars, march in gay pride parades, etc.

So what? What's wrong with any of that stuff? You make a choice to go to church, presumably. Is there anything inherently wrong with that because it's a choice?
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Consciously Unconscious
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« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2016, 07:17:01 PM »

As someone currently dealing with homophobia, I would still say racism is a worse evil.  While both are definitely problems, historically there is no equal comparison between the black community and the LGBT community.  Even today, racism is still more of a problem and evil I think.  While I have never really had to deal with racism, I have had to deal with homophobia and it is definitely frustrating.  Racism seems to be more innate or systematic, while homophobia seems to be more of a knee jerk "yuck" reaction. 
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Derpist
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« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2016, 10:50:46 PM »

It's easier to hide one of these than the other.
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Mercenary
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« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2016, 11:43:00 PM »

It depends what you mean by "homophobia".

Do you mean someone who hates homosexuals because they are homosexual?
Or do you mean someone who just disapproves of homosexual activity but has no issue or hatred towards people in general?
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Figs
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« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2016, 04:16:18 AM »

It depends what you mean by "homophobia".

Do you mean someone who hates homosexuals because they are homosexual?
Or do you mean someone who just disapproves of homosexual activity but has no issue or hatred towards people in general?

Those are not functionally different things.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2016, 05:15:22 AM »

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Mercenary
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« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2016, 09:59:21 PM »

It depends what you mean by "homophobia".

Do you mean someone who hates homosexuals because they are homosexual?
Or do you mean someone who just disapproves of homosexual activity but has no issue or hatred towards people in general?

Those are not functionally different things.

Sure they are.

Someone who doesn't hate them and just opposes the behavior isn't likely to bully them or commit assault or murder so I would say they are quite different. Also one could oppose homosexual behavior but still oppose using the law to enforce it if said person doesn't have authoritarian tendencies. The issue is with hate and authoritarianism more than it is with opposition to homosexual behavior on a private level. Granted people who have personal objections to it but don't support authoritarian laws tend to be more quiet on the issue so they are mostly ignored, but I am sure they'd probably be called "homophobic" too which is why I asked what was meant by the term before I considered voting.

Obviously if it is hatred then it is the same. Hate is hate.
But if it is personal moral objection to some behavior or action without hatred toward the individual then it is not nearly as bad. It is the equivalent of someone objecting to say premartial sex or eating meat or something along those lines.

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omegascarlet
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« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2016, 10:22:29 AM »

Definitely
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shua
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« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2016, 11:14:17 PM »

are two vague things ethically equal?  i guess in a way they may or may not be perhaps.
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RI
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« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2016, 02:39:29 PM »

Sometimes, but then again not all racism and homophobia are created equal to begin with.
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SUSAN CRUSHBONE
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« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2016, 05:35:50 AM »

in a vacuum, yes
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