So is Hillary going to work on the honesty/corruption problem at all?
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  So is Hillary going to work on the honesty/corruption problem at all?
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Author Topic: So is Hillary going to work on the honesty/corruption problem at all?  (Read 1103 times)
Lyin' Steve
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« on: July 13, 2016, 10:35:39 AM »

It's really her big weakness, but it doesn't seem like she does much to combat it.  I hear surrogates talking about her experience and skill, but they never say that she's an honest person with good judgment.  Why can't she have Barack go around the country talking about her integrity?  Or even better, Warren?
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Beefalow and the Consumer
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« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2016, 10:45:28 AM »

Talking about it is off-message, and will only strengthen the public perception that there is a problem.  She might enlist an "apologist in chief" surrogate to take on that job, but any such arrangement would be very secretive.
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Hermit For Peace
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« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2016, 11:13:20 AM »


She doesn't have a chance to really say anything to improve her image. The media deck and public perception deck is totally stacked WAY WAY against her after all these years.

What it's going to take is for her to get in office as President and let her prove herself to the people how good she is at the job. Words don't mean much but actions sure do.
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maquignon
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« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2016, 12:03:57 PM »

Sadly, she believes that the way to "work on it" is to deny it.  Is she really too stupid to know that the only way she can work on it is to admit that she has been the biggest liar on the planet and been corrupt is almost every action she has taken and start being truthful and honest and use some integrity in her dealings. 

So, no, Hillary is NOT going to work on the honesty/corruption problem.  She has escaped justice for 40 years and she thinks she can do it forever. 
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egalitt
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« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2016, 12:14:08 PM »

Here is an anecdote :
An interview with a presidential candidate.
       Reporter: Why did you decide to run for President?
       Candidate: It is common knowledge that the state apparatus has become corrupt, people who are in power take billion dollar bribes, luxuriate, and loaf around without feeling guilty.
       Repoter: How are you going to struggle against it?
       Candidate: Why should I struggle against it? I plan to participate in it!

http://samlib.ru/j/jacko_w_a/anecdotes.shtml
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Ljube
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« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2016, 12:28:07 PM »

Everybody knows she is crooked.
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Mr. Reactionary
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« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2016, 01:30:02 PM »

There is no need for the most honest hero ever to work on her public image because something about how its all Republican lies.
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Pyro
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« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2016, 01:58:22 PM »

I'm fairly sure she believes she doesn't have to because she's going up against Trump.
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Crumpets
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« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2016, 02:06:42 PM »

How can she "work on it"? People either think she's corrupt or they don't, and everything she does will simply reinforce their existing opinion.
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egalitt
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« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2016, 02:39:52 PM »

How can she "work on it"? People either think she's corrupt or they don't, and everything she does will simply reinforce their existing opinion.

"Work on it"  means inventing some new  lies.
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136or142
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« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2016, 02:44:50 PM »

Politifact finds roughly 20-25% of Hillary Clinton's statements to be completely false or mostly false.

They also find roughly 60% (or is it 80%?) of Rapist Trump's statements to be completely false or mostly false.

Yet it's Hillary Clinton who needs to work on her honesty (and corruption [allegations])?
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Ljube
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« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2016, 03:22:32 PM »

Politifact finds roughly 20-25% of Hillary Clinton's statements to be completely false or mostly false.

They also find roughly 60% (or is it 80%?) of Rapist Trump's statements to be completely false or mostly false.

Yet it's Hillary Clinton who needs to work on her honesty (and corruption [allegations])?

Nobody cares about Politifact and the other similar hack organizations.

The majority of people think that Hillary is the dishonest/corrupt candidate in the race.
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Ljube
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« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2016, 03:23:43 PM »

How can she "work on it"? People either think she's corrupt or they don't, and everything she does will simply reinforce their existing opinion.

"Work on it"  means inventing some new  lies.

You mean "re-inventing herself" again?
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136or142
Adam T
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« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2016, 03:24:42 PM »

Politifact finds roughly 20-25% of Hillary Clinton's statements to be completely false or mostly false.

They also find roughly 60% (or is it 80%?) of Rapist Trump's statements to be completely false or mostly false.

Yet it's Hillary Clinton who needs to work on her honesty (and corruption [allegations])?

Nobody cares about Politifact and the other similar hack organizations.

The majority of people think that Hillary is the dishonest/corrupt candidate in the race.


Nearly as many people think that Rapist Trump is also dishonest/corrupt.

I also don't care what a hack like you writes.
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egalitt
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« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2016, 11:42:23 PM »
« Edited: July 13, 2016, 11:51:18 PM by egalitt »

How can she "work on it"? People either think she's corrupt or they don't, and everything she does will simply reinforce their existing opinion.

"Work on it"  means inventing some new  lies.

You mean "re-inventing herself" again?

I mean she will concoct new lies that explain her previous lies, i.e.  some second (third, forth) power lies.  Accordingly she becomes a squared liar,  a cubed liar,  etc.
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Xing
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« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2016, 11:55:47 PM »

Most people who think she's "crooked" wouldn't be convinced otherwise even if she rescued 100 children from a burning building. They'd probably claim that she started the fire in the first place. She should focus on proving that she's prepared for the job, while Trump isn't.
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SillyAmerican
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« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2016, 12:24:14 AM »

How can she "work on it"? People either think she's corrupt or they don't, and everything she does will simply reinforce their existing opinion.

Well, she's spent $30 million on ads to "work on it", and where has it got her? She's now only slightly behind in the swing states of Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Florida. I imagine she'll continue to "work on it", but my sense is that the American electorate simply isn't buying what she's peddling. The campaign would probably be doing much better were their candidate not named Hillary Clinton, a person who has repeatedly shown herself, and continues to show herself, to be dishonest/corrupt.
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OneJ
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« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2016, 01:05:56 AM »

First of all, how can anyone work on their very strong perception amongst those like #BernieOrBusters or Trump supporters to prove he or she is not the liar the media perceives the person to be? Some people just continue to be slow and naive.

Hillary shouldn't try to prove why she is trustworthy. Hell, the GOP candidates (besides Trump) on Politifact have worse ratings than she does, yet they like to blame her.

To put all of this in a summary, Hillary has better things to do. Enough said.
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ProudModerate2
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« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2016, 02:05:55 AM »

How can she "work on it"? People either think she's corrupt or they don't, and everything she does will simply reinforce their existing opinion.

Well, she's spent $30 million on ads to "work on it", and where has it got her? She's now only slightly behind in the swing states of Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Florida. I imagine she'll continue to "work on it", but my sense is that the American electorate simply isn't buying what she's peddling. The campaign would probably be doing much better were their candidate not named Hillary Clinton, a person who has repeatedly shown herself, and continues to show herself, to be dishonest/corrupt.

LOL.
You see a couple of new polls where trump is leading, and trump supporters start to sport big wood.
The weighted averages in most critical states still have Hillary leading. The weighted RPG average nationally still has her leading also.
So if anything, "the American electorate simply isn't buying the bulls**t that trump is peddling."
You got it all wrong .... you "silly American."

See Likely Voter's neat analysis below. And note that Likely Voter is only using the most recent polls in each state, to get the averages displayed ....

There have been a lot of polls out in the last few days, but not all were done entirely or partially post Comey. Nationally the seven post-Comey press conference polls have it at Clinton +4.4.  Looking at the state polls you have the following averages...
 
FL   T+5   Quinnipiac, JMC
IA   --   Monmouth, Marist, Gravis
PA   C+1   Quinnipiac, Marist
OH   C+2   Quinnipiac, Marist
NV   C+4   Monmouth
WI   C+6   Marquette
VA   C+7   Fox
CO   C+10   Monmouth, Harper, Fox

Nothing from NC and NH, but a good guess would be Trump a little ahead in NC and behind in NH.

So Clinton is still favored but not as favored as she was two weeks ago, but then again it is just a snapshot with just a few pollsters and of course this week we have the Bernie endorsement which may have an effect we havent seen yet. Then we will have the Trump VP announcement, RNC, Clinton VP announcement and DNC.  And there is still the fallout from Dallas and other shootings and how the candidates are reacting. With so many things going on in July it is going to be hard to sort out how each event is effecting the polls and maybe they wont really settle down until early August.
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Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
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« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2016, 02:35:27 AM »

Most people who think she's "crooked" wouldn't be convinced otherwise even if she rescued 100 children from a burning building. They'd probably claim that she started the fire in the first place. She should focus on proving that she's prepared for the job, while Trump isn't.

"One good act does not correct an entire life" would be a very common refrain if Hillary pulled this off. Also "an act to win the election" if it happened between now and november.
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egalitt
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« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2016, 03:04:27 AM »

Most people who think she's "crooked" wouldn't be convinced otherwise even if she rescued 100 children from a burning building. They'd probably claim that she started the fire in the first place. She should focus on proving that she's prepared for the job, while Trump isn't.

First to put a building on fire and then to rescue its inhabitants to present herself as a hero? Yes, this is very much in Clinton's style. And it's very instructive that such ideas occur to her backers.
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Hermit For Peace
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« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2016, 03:09:55 AM »

Most people who think she's "crooked" wouldn't be convinced otherwise even if she rescued 100 children from a burning building. They'd probably claim that she started the fire in the first place. She should focus on proving that she's prepared for the job, while Trump isn't.

And that's exactly what she is doing. Good for her.

She certainly is the most prepared of the whole lot of candidates who were running this time around.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2016, 04:36:52 AM »

The thing about Hillary, as this thread shows, people will believe whatever they need to, regardless of evidence. She knows begging clueless blockheads is a waste of time and just needs to double-down on showing she's smart, capable and tough and Trump is a dangerous self-aggrandising lunatic.
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« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2016, 06:19:14 AM »

People are misunderstanding the problem. So it's clear that a majority of people think Hillary is untrustworthy. But let's break that group up. A good portion of them are unpersuadable: partisan Republicans who answer negative to any democrat they are polled on and those people who have independently researched and come to the conclusion that Hillary is corrupt,. They aren't important tbh. However there is a large group of people who are less interested in politics, and don't know the ins and outs of every scandal (because they are normal human beings). With the current news cycle these people's understandings of the various scandals is that Hillary did something dodgy (after all, no smoke without fire?). Seeing as this is a majority of voters, this must include people who voted Obama so they obviously aren't just partisan anti-Democrats. These people are the ones that must be persuaded for a positive win (i.e. If the campaign is just a scorched earth attack on Trump, Hillary would probably win but her presidency will start off unpopular and she won't get any coattails).

Now how to persuade them? Obviously a Nixonian "I'm not a crook" won't fly. Cliche stuff like bringing out her family might work (so Michelle Obama made aloof Barack seem more like a regular guy) , but Hillary's spouse and daughter are known quantities to the public rather than say Romney's endless spawn. I would start chasing up anti-corruption initiates and stuff that Hillary hypothetically did in her SoS tenure. To counteract the idea that she changes her views for expediency, I would focus on "throughout her life" ads (e.g. Hillary has always been passionate about [issue x]. As a young lawyer she pushed through [issue X]. When First Lady, nobody was more specific about [Issue X] than her. And as your president, she will champion [Issue x] like she always has throughout her life.

As for the scandals themselves, have one bombastic press conference to apologise and put the issue to rest. Then leave it to proxies to rubbish all claims and make even the more grounded of them seem like Vince Foster tier.
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136or142
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« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2016, 06:28:21 AM »

People are misunderstanding the problem. So it's clear that a majority of people think Hillary is untrustworthy. But let's break that group up. A good portion of them are unpersuadable: partisan Republicans who answer negative to any democrat they are polled on and those people who have independently researched and come to the conclusion that Hillary is corrupt,. They aren't important tbh. However there is a large group of people who are less interested in politics, and don't know the ins and outs of every scandal (because they are normal human beings). With the current news cycle these people's understandings of the various scandals is that Hillary did something dodgy (after all, no smoke without fire?). Seeing as this is a majority of voters, this must include people who voted Obama so they obviously aren't just partisan anti-Democrats. These people are the ones that must be persuaded for a positive win (i.e. If the campaign is just a scorched earth attack on Trump, Hillary would probably win but her presidency will start off unpopular and she won't get any coattails).

Now how to persuade them? Obviously a Nixonian "I'm not a crook" won't fly. Cliche stuff like bringing out her family might work (so Michelle Obama made aloof Barack seem more like a regular guy) , but Hillary's spouse and daughter are known quantities to the public rather than say Romney's endless spawn. I would start chasing up anti-corruption initiates and stuff that Hillary hypothetically did in her SoS tenure. To counteract the idea that she changes her views for expediency, I would focus on "throughout her life" ads (e.g. Hillary has always been passionate about [issue x]. As a young lawyer she pushed through [issue X]. When First Lady, nobody was more specific about [Issue X] than her. And as your president, she will champion [Issue x] like she always has throughout her life.

As for the scandals themselves, have one bombastic press conference to apologise and put the issue to rest. Then leave it to proxies to rubbish all claims and make even the more grounded of them seem like Vince Foster tier.

I think a two track approach is always the best.  If Hillary just addresses the issue by itself, she gets compared to perfection and obviously comes up short.  George H W Bush in 1988 showed that destroying an opponent also means no longer be judged against perfection, but being judged against the main opponent.

Hillary Clinton may be a 2/10 on honesty/corruption but Rapist Trump is a 0/10.  Just keep highlighting his endless lies and long history of corruption (buying off politicians, hiring illegal aliens from Poland, deceitful claims of charitable giving...) and I think she'll end up looking like the person Diogenes was seeking.
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