Question for Never Trump Republicans..........
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  Question for Never Trump Republicans..........
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Author Topic: Question for Never Trump Republicans..........  (Read 1698 times)
Lincoln Republican
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« on: July 16, 2016, 10:13:29 PM »

..........Will it be worth it to put up with a Trump Presidency for 4 years in exchange for having a conservative Supreme Court and for having Republican friendly legislation passed?
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Lothal1
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« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2016, 11:15:10 PM »

Neither Hillary or Trump are being reelected anyways, so I'd sacrifice 4 years of Hillary and them have 8-12 years of Republicans then have Potus Trump and 8-12 years of Democrats.
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Attorney General, LGC Speaker & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
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« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2016, 11:33:13 PM »

#NEVERTRUMP is about following your conscience and standing up to Priebus and Trump and saying this is not what the Republican party is or should be. Telling people to ignore the negatives and think about the positives doesn't stop it because such people have already decided that the negatives outweigh the positives.

It doesn't matter if calling everyone insulting names means nothing, or if the wall or the Muslim ban will never pass congress. That doesn't change the fact that Trump is a hot-tempered, racist, anti-first amendment individual who does not respect the constitution and is radically unqualified to be president. We can either stand up and vote him and his ideas down now, or vote for him and risk several decades worth of Trump like nominees that we're forced to vote for if there is no moderate D or L running.
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Devout Centrist
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« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2016, 11:39:57 PM »

Neither Hillary or Trump are being reelected anyways, so I'd sacrifice 4 years of Hillary and them have 8-12 years of Republicans then have Potus Trump and 8-12 years of Democrats.
That's a mighty big assumption on your part. In addition, Trump is only a symptom. He's not the disease.
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Indy Texas
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« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2016, 11:45:26 PM »

Why do you assume Trump's SCOTUS nominees will satisfy you?

Other than Scalia and Thomas, conservatives have been disappointed with pretty much every justice Republicans have nominated in recent years - O'Connor, Souter, Kennedy, Roberts...

And what is "Republican friendly legislation?" The Republican Party doesn't vote for legislation - it only votes against it.
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BigSkyBob
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« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2016, 04:00:44 AM »

#NEVERTRUMP is about following your conscience and standing up to Priebus and Trump and saying this is not what the Republican party is or should be. Telling people to ignore the negatives and think about the positives doesn't stop it because such people have already decided that the negatives outweigh the positives.

It doesn't matter if calling everyone insulting names means nothing, or if the wall or the Muslim ban will never pass congress. That doesn't change the fact that Trump is a hot-tempered, racist, anti-first amendment individual who does not respect the constitution and is radically unqualified to be president. We can either stand up and vote him and his ideas down now, or vote for him and risk several decades worth of Trump like nominees that we're forced to vote for if there is no moderate D or L running.

I suppose you'll never see the irony of denouncing those who "cal[] everyone insulting names," and immediately proceeding to call Donald Trump a series of names including "racist." Whatever.

What is simply false is your assertions that a wall will never be built, or that there will not be a "Muslim ban."  That is just defeatist rhetoric that originated with those that have a vested interest in mass immigration both legal and illegal. The reality is that terrorist attacks such as in Orlando, Paris and Nice will drive public opinion until the defeatists and naysayers are forced to stand down. The only question is how many people have to needlessly die in the meanwhile.

Nor, are you correct in saying Donald Trump cannot build a wall or impose a "Muslim ban," whatever that means. The President has the legal authority to ban travel to and from any country at his discretion. And, the President can impose a virtual wall by using the military to defend the Southern border. Sure, obstructionists in the legislature can slow any structure, but, fundamentally, short of impeachment, they simply can't stop stopping illegal immigration.
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President Johnson
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« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2016, 04:00:55 AM »

Neither Hillary or Trump are being reelected anyways, so I'd sacrifice 4 years of Hillary and them have 8-12 years of Republicans then have Potus Trump and 8-12 years of Democrats.

Far too early to say this. I don't think Hilldog will do a good job, but if she does or if her 2020 rival is a right-wing nutjob like Cruz, she would win reelection. Same with TRUMP, if he does well, he'll get a second term.
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Mercenary
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« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2016, 04:54:24 AM »
« Edited: July 17, 2016, 04:56:14 AM by Mercenary »

A Trump win means 1. Trump is president 2. Will most likely be the 2020 nominee. That in turn means 2024 is the earliest chance at a decent nominee and 2024 would probably be won by a D either due to Trump fatigue or due to incumbency advantage from 2020. So 2028 would probably be the earliest to have a decent R president. And of course there is no guarantee Trump appointments would be any good. They probably will be the bad of both conservative and liberal appointed justices all in one.

The choice of 4 years of Clinton with a chance of a Rand Paul or Kasich nomination and win in 2020 is much better in my opinion and is one of the two reasons I prefer her. The other being I just dont want Trump as president as the thought terrifies me. Nothing is worth putting the country in that kind of danger.
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Roemerista
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« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2016, 05:51:58 AM »
« Edited: July 17, 2016, 06:07:45 AM by Roemerista »

Absolutely not. There is nothing, nothing that makes a President Trump an acceptable thought. He represents the very worst in us. The amalgamation of the worst vices, and the expression of the most base populist impulses.  

I'd rather have president Clinton for a hundred years than Trump be president for one day.
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Fuzzy Won't Cover Up Biden's Senility
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« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2016, 06:16:53 AM »

Why do you assume Trump's SCOTUS nominees will satisfy you?

Other than Scalia and Thomas, conservatives have been disappointed with pretty much every justice Republicans have nominated in recent years - O'Connor, Souter, Kennedy, Roberts...

And what is "Republican friendly legislation?" The Republican Party doesn't vote for legislation - it only votes against it.

I would think conservatives are happy with Alito.  Other than the Obamacare decision, I have trouble seeing why conservatives would be bent out of shape about Roberts.  And Kennedy ALWAYS comes down on the "Republican side" of "political questions" (something the Court once shied away from).  Citizens United.  Bush v. Gore.  Obamacare.  When it's a GOP Flagship issue, Kennedy is right there; it's only on SOCIAL issues that Kennedy is "moderate" or "liberal". 

Ginsburg's comments on Trump last week only confirmed that the SCOTUS Justices are just as political as Congress now, and just as partisan, and this is not good.  This is a direct result of the politicization of the Judicial Nomination process, a gift to America from Richard Nixon that has kept on giving and giving.  The idea that the Supreme Court would be a deciding factor in anyone's decision as to how to vote for President is a relatively new phenomenon in our politics.
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Ljube
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« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2016, 06:29:58 AM »

..........Will it be worth it to put up with a Trump Presidency for 4 years in exchange for having a conservative Supreme Court and for having Republican friendly legislation passed?


Thank you, Winfield!

This sums up really nicely why any Republican should vote for Trump.

There has already been a period of eight years without any Republican friendly legislation being passed. Nobody should be in doubt that Hillary will continue to block any such attempt in the future, like Obama did.

A president coming from the Democratic Party represents a profound danger to our liberties. They are too used to ruling by means of Executive Orders and blocking legislation. They are not going to stop with that practice now.

Hillary's recent attack on Citizens United ruling proved once again that she is an enemy of liberty.

And there is no guarantee we will keep the Senate, so she may shove the worst kinds of activist judges down our throats. The prospect of that is truly terrifying.
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Fuzzy Won't Cover Up Biden's Senility
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« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2016, 06:47:06 AM »

..........Will it be worth it to put up with a Trump Presidency for 4 years in exchange for having a conservative Supreme Court and for having Republican friendly legislation passed?


Thank you, Winfield!

This sums up really nicely why any Republican should vote for Trump.

There has already been a period of eight years without any Republican friendly legislation being passed. Nobody should be in doubt that Hillary will continue to block any such attempt in the future, like Obama did.

A president coming from the Democratic Party represents a profound danger to our liberties. They are too used to ruling by means of Executive Orders and blocking legislation. They are not going to stop with that practice now.

Hillary's recent attack on Citizens United ruling proved once again that she is an enemy of liberty.

And there is no guarantee we will keep the Senate, so she may shove the worst kinds of activist judges down our throats. The prospect of that is truly terrifying.


I do get it why conservatives are cool to Trump.  Trump isn't Romney; he isn't a moderate Republican pretending to be a conservative in order to be nominated.  Trump has actually challenged the GOP's dogma, and revealed its Free Trade/Small Government mantras to have limited appeal with a significant swath of its "base".  (By base, I mean the folks who regularly show up and vote Republican for President in General Elections; this is the REAL base of a political party at a Presidential level.)  Trump has set limits on Movement Conservatives and Establishment Republicans, and he has reestablished the idea that it's the REPUBLICAN party, and not the CONSERVATIVE party (although it is still, clearly, the more conservative party, in comparison to the Democrats). 

Movement Conservatives and Establishment Republicans need to come to terms with the fact that their radical "small government" agenda of recent years is NOT what Americans want.  They want government to provide solutions.  Trump's core constituency is a constituency that wants government action on behalf of folks who have spent most of their life working, as opposed to those who haven't, and they differ from Democrats on that front, but it's still the opposite of the small government folks who, in recent years, have refused to support even the rebuilding of our infrastructure, on the grounds that it's "throwing money at problems".  America WANTS money thrown at problems, and, in truth, most of our problems require more money thrown at them and not merely doing something different.
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Erc
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« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2016, 08:52:02 AM »

Absolutely not.

Republicans in Congress have shown no interest in actually governing, and there is no evidence that that will change even if they do retain control of the Senate.

Even if that weren't the case, the odds they could get substantial legislation through the necessary cloture votes are nil...and that's assuming Trump doesn't go off the deep end and start vetoing things.

Which means the only things that get done are the ones that can be done by the President himself, and all of them (foreign policy, trade, immigration, justice, personal corruption) would be absolutely disastrous under a Trump Presidency, far worse than under a Clinton one.

The loss of the Supreme Court is a shame, but that's why you confirm Merrick Garland.  It's lessened, of course, if the Republicans should retain control of the Senate.
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Coolface Sock #42069
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« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2016, 08:59:47 AM »

No, because I don't trust Trump to nominate conservatives to the Court or get real conservative legislation passed.
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« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2016, 09:12:44 AM »

#NeverTrump Republicans should just become Democrats. The reason Trump won the nomination is because most Republican voters agree with the things he says.

Even when Trump loses in November, it's not like those Trump voters are going back into the closet. They're empowered now. They'll nominate Trump again in 2020, or someone like him. The days of McCain/Romney-type nominees are over.
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Erc
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« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2016, 09:30:36 AM »

#NeverTrump Republicans should just become Democrats. The reason Trump won the nomination is because most Republican voters agree with the things he says.

Even when Trump loses in November, it's not like those Trump voters are going back into the closet. They're empowered now. They'll nominate Trump again in 2020, or someone like him. The days of McCain/Romney-type nominees are over.

Believe me, I've considered it.  But I'm not quite sure if I'm willing to permanently surrender half of the national discourse to Trumpism.

Though in the end, if I can't be certain whether I'm in the resistance or actually a collaborator, perhaps it is time to go.
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Coolface Sock #42069
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« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2016, 09:53:37 AM »

#NeverTrump Republicans should just become Democrats. The reason Trump won the nomination is because most Republican voters agree with the things he says.

Even when Trump loses in November, it's not like those Trump voters are going back into the closet. They're empowered now. They'll nominate Trump again in 2020, or someone like him. The days of McCain/Romney-type nominees are over.
I can't become a Democrat because I do not agree with their redistribution and social justice agendas, among other things.
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Inmate Trump
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« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2016, 09:56:50 AM »

I'm not a Republican, but I side with them more often than Democrats.

I'm voting Hillary this November.

Trump is far more dangerous, and anyone who cannot see this is incredibly blind and ignorant.
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Ljube
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« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2016, 12:03:58 PM »

I'm not a Republican, but I side with them more often than Democrats.

I'm voting Hillary this November.

Trump is far more dangerous, and anyone who cannot see this is incredibly blind and ignorant.

Or, perhaps, you are blinded by your hatred of his style and not thinking straight about substance.
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Ljube
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« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2016, 12:06:07 PM »

#NeverTrump Republicans should just become Democrats. The reason Trump won the nomination is because most Republican voters agree with the things he says.

Even when Trump loses in November, it's not like those Trump voters are going back into the closet. They're empowered now. They'll nominate Trump again in 2020, or someone like him. The days of McCain/Romney-type nominees are over.

If they agree with the Democratic agenda (like Erc), by all means they should.

We are talking about Republicans who are NeverTrump, but disagree with the Democratic agenda.
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Ljube
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« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2016, 12:08:02 PM »

No, because I don't trust Trump to nominate conservatives to the Court or get real conservative legislation passed.

But you trust Hillary to do all that?
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Dr. Arch
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« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2016, 12:11:34 PM »

I'm not a Republican, but I side with them more often than Democrats.

I'm voting Hillary this November.

Trump is far more dangerous, and anyone who cannot see this is incredibly blind and ignorant.

Or, perhaps, you are blinded by your hatred of his style and not thinking straight about substance.


Trump's campaign has no substance.
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Inmate Trump
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« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2016, 01:08:29 PM »

I'm not a Republican, but I side with them more often than Democrats.

I'm voting Hillary this November.

Trump is far more dangerous, and anyone who cannot see this is incredibly blind and ignorant.

Or, perhaps, you are blinded by your hatred of his style and not thinking straight about substance.


What substance?

His entire campaign has been nothing but one racist blunder after another. If that's the substance you mean, then I'm afraid you're the one who is blind.
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ProudModerate2
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« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2016, 01:19:35 PM »

I'm not a Republican, but I side with them more often than Democrats.
I'm voting Hillary this November.
Trump is far more dangerous, and anyone who cannot see this is incredibly blind and ignorant.

Or, perhaps, you are blinded by your hatred of his style and not thinking straight about substance.

I agree with Clay. trump as our president is just too dangerous.
As you can see in this thread, Ljube, there are quite a few Republicans who doubt voting, or know they will not vote for trump in November. The NeverTrump campaign, even after the convention, will still live.
There is nothing wrong with "hating trump's style" of bigotry, racism and xenophobia. EVERYONE should hate a politician with this type of "style."
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Holmes
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« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2016, 01:25:36 PM »

#NeverTrump Republicans should just become Democrats. The reason Trump won the nomination is because most Republican voters agree with the things he says.

Even when Trump loses in November, it's not like those Trump voters are going back into the closet. They're empowered now. They'll nominate Trump again in 2020, or someone like him. The days of McCain/Romney-type nominees are over.

Believe me, I've considered it.  But I'm not quite sure if I'm willing to permanently surrender half of the national discourse to Trumpism.

Though in the end, if I can't be certain whether I'm in the resistance or actually a collaborator, perhaps it is time to go.

Have you thought of just becoming Independent?
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