Woman tries to buy birthday cake for her wife...
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  Woman tries to buy birthday cake for her wife...
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Poll
Question: Should the baker be forced to sell the cake?
#1
Yes, but only because it's not for a wedding
 
#2
Yes, even if it were for a wedding and not a birthday
 
#3
No, she should not have to sell them the cake
 
#4
Other/Moderate hero option
 
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Total Voters: 74

Author Topic: Woman tries to buy birthday cake for her wife...  (Read 3651 times)
The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
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« on: July 17, 2016, 06:50:14 PM »

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Should the baker have been forced to sell the cake?  Is participating in "gay birthdays" the same as participating in "gay weddings?"  Is it ever appropriate to look up your client's Facebook page to figure out their sexuality?  Its you're chose!
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Ray Goldfield
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« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2016, 07:05:35 PM »

This feels more like denying access to a standard good as opposed to not performing a special service that endorses the event. So I would lean towards "they should be required to sell the cake".
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Wells
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« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2016, 07:29:00 PM »

She shouldn't be forced to bake the cake. If she doesn't want to, that's her problem. Mrs. Lowe can go somewhere else.

The baker, however, should put a sign in the bakery window that says "Straights Only." We'll see how much business she gets then.
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Sprouts Farmers Market ✘
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« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2016, 07:40:41 PM »

She shouldn't be forced to bake the cake. If she doesn't want to, that's her problem. Mrs. Lowe can go somewhere else.

The baker, however, should put a sign in the bakery window that says "Straights Only." We'll see how much business she gets then.

Yes, quite that! I'm sure most here would be fine with the baker just burning the cake and delivering it with the message, "this is what will happen to you" so long as precious group gets its service provided and bigot gets [preferred pronoun] cash.
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Santander
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« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2016, 07:46:33 PM »

I used to be in Camp A, but now I'm in Camp B. I've talked about this a couple of times already, but baking a wedding cake does not constitute participation in a wedding, and is certainly not a Biblical part of Christian marriage.

Now, the baker shouldn't be forced to write "Happy Birthday! Gay Pride!" on the cake, but that's a freedom of speech thing, not a freedom of religion thing.
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Bojack Horseman
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« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2016, 07:57:52 PM »

If you wouldn't sell a cake to an interracial couple, you're a racist. If you wouldn't sell a cake to a gay couple, you're homophobic. Wonder why conservatives aren't rushing to defend the right of that restaurant owner who told the local police they weren't welcome to eat at his restaurant to refuse them service.
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Anna Komnene
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« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2016, 08:22:06 PM »

Yes, people shouldn't be denied service because of their sexual orientation.  I know this is just a birthday cake, but there are some towns that only really have one market for the whole town.  If that market was allowed to refuse service to gays, it could force them into becoming subsistence farmers or travel long distances just to buy food!  That would be crazy.
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evergreenarbor
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« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2016, 08:32:17 PM »

Yes, people shouldn't be denied service because of their sexual orientation.  I know this is just a birthday cake, but there are some towns that only really have one market for the whole town.  If that market was allowed to refuse service to gays, it could force them into becoming subsistence farmers or travel long distances just to buy food!  That would be crazy.
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Virginiá
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« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2016, 10:33:55 PM »

Yes, people shouldn't be denied service because of their sexual orientation.  I know this is just a birthday cake, but there are some towns that only really have one market for the whole town.  If that market was allowed to refuse service to gays, it could force them into becoming subsistence farmers or travel long distances just to buy food!  That would be crazy.

Basically this.

Using religion to justify discrimination is disgusting. If history and the current trajectory of this country are to be trusted, this bs will be banned eventually and these assholes will have nothing to fall back on.
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Joe Republic
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« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2016, 10:51:40 PM »

It's been illegal for over fifty years for private businesses to discriminate based on race, color, religion or national origin.  There is no logical argument in today's society why this shouldn't be amended to include sexual orientation and gender identity, unless the argument is in favor of abolishing this law entirely (which would obviously be a return to a dark and scary time in our history, but at least the argument would be logically consistent).
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RI
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« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2016, 11:12:17 PM »

There is no logical argument in today's society why this shouldn't be amended to include sexual orientation and gender identity

Sure there is. Gender identity isn't a thing, and sex is already protected.
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2016, 11:24:26 PM »

She shouldn't be forced to bake the cake. If she doesn't want to, that's her problem. Mrs. Lowe can go somewhere else.

The baker, however, should put a sign in the bakery window that says "Straights Only." We'll see how much business she gets then.
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RaphaelDLG
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« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2016, 11:25:07 PM »

I used to be in Camp A, but now I'm in Camp B. I've talked about this a couple of times already, but baking a wedding cake does not constitute participation in a wedding, and is certainly not a Biblical part of Christian marriage.

Now, the baker shouldn't be forced to write "Happy Birthday! Gay Pride!" on the cake, but that's a freedom of speech thing, not a freedom of religion thing.

Agree, except I was never in Camp A.
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Indy Texas
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« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2016, 12:38:43 AM »

Owning any kind of bakery or restaurant is an incredibly hectic, fast-paced job, and the fact that this baker is so overcome with hatred for gay people that she wasted time on this foolishness is downright pathetic.

You're a baker. Bake cakes, sell cakes and shut the hell up. If you wanted to save humanity from sin, you should have joined the clergy.
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Goldwater
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« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2016, 12:44:36 AM »

It's been illegal for over fifty years for private businesses to discriminate based on race, color, religion or national origin.  There is no logical argument in today's society why this shouldn't be amended to include sexual orientation and gender identity, unless the argument is in favor of abolishing this law entirely (which would obviously be a return to a dark and scary time in our history, but at least the argument would be logically consistent).

Basically, this.
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« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2016, 12:55:05 AM »

I still think the best answer is no.  Wouldn't you want to know the person making your cake was prejudiced against you?  Why force them into making something and have them possibly sabotage that item because they don't like you? Shouldn't others know about their prejudice and get called out on it? 
Wouldn't you want to give your money to someone who appreciates your business?
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2016, 12:55:32 AM »

Owning any kind of bakery or restaurant is an incredibly hectic, fast-paced job, and the fact that this baker is so overcome with hatred for gay people that she wasted time on this foolishness is downright pathetic.

You're a baker. Bake cakes, sell cakes and shut the hell up. If you wanted to save humanity from sin, you should have joined the clergy.

Religion is too important to be left to the priests.  That said, refusing to sell a cake saying "Happy Birthday <insert name here>!" because she was the woman's wife instead of her friend is definitely ridiculous.
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Goldwater
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« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2016, 01:03:05 AM »

I still think the best answer is no.  Wouldn't you want to know the person making your cake was prejudiced against you?  Why force them into making something and have them possibly sabotage that item because they don't like you? Shouldn't others know about their prejudice and get called out on it? 
Wouldn't you want to give your money to someone who appreciates your business?

TBH, I think this a good argument for repealing anti-discrimination laws in general, which I would support. But as long as we have them, they need to applied consistently and fairly.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2016, 01:03:22 AM »

She shouldn't be forced to bake the cake. If she doesn't want to, that's her problem. Mrs. Lowe can go somewhere else.

The baker, however, should put a sign in the bakery window that says "Straights Only." We'll see how much business she gets then.
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Dabeav
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« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2016, 01:06:22 AM »

I still think the best answer is no.  Wouldn't you want to know the person making your cake was prejudiced against you?  Why force them into making something and have them possibly sabotage that item because they don't like you? Shouldn't others know about their prejudice and get called out on it? 
Wouldn't you want to give your money to someone who appreciates your business?

TBH, I think this a good argument for repealing anti-discrimination laws in general, which I would support. But as long as we have them, they need to applied consistently and fairly.

I agree there. But if your baker is a racist nutjob, it would be nice to let them voluntarily expose that fact.
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Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
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« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2016, 01:42:22 AM »

Camp A.
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Joe Republic
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« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2016, 02:21:14 AM »

There is no logical argument in today's society why this shouldn't be amended to include sexual orientation and gender identity

Sure there is. Gender identity isn't a thing, and sex is already protected.

My original post specifically referred to "today's society", so evidently my entire point must have been lost on you.  You're welcome to come back to it once you've caught up to the rest of us.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2016, 05:37:03 AM »

Businesses have no right to discriminate. Period.
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dead0man
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« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2016, 05:52:00 AM »

Is this the only place to buy a cake?  And they don't like gay people?  Seems like a perfect business opportunity for someone that isn't a bigot.
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Mr. Jew
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« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2016, 08:23:51 AM »
« Edited: July 19, 2016, 11:26:54 PM by True Federalist »

I am not really sure to be honest.  Part of me really wants to use the "well, she will suffer now that everyone knows she is a bigot" option but at the very same time it is quite disturbing that this woman went to  the length of looking this person up on facebook and then deciding to use very personal information to deny her service.  I mean that is downright creepy and isn't exactly a privacy violation but this isn't a job interview ya know?  There really is no reasonable basis for an owner to go on facebook to determine whether or not they should or can sell to somebody.  That is just bull.

Moderate Hero.
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