Pence: "Mulan" was a liberal conspiracy, women can't fight!
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  Pence: "Mulan" was a liberal conspiracy, women can't fight!
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Author Topic: Pence: "Mulan" was a liberal conspiracy, women can't fight!  (Read 855 times)
Blue3
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« on: July 18, 2016, 06:33:28 PM »

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https://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/mister-ill-make-a-man-out-of-you?utm_term=.va2kZLN90#.mqA3ElBPN
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cxs018
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« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2016, 06:34:52 PM »

This reminds me of that one Australian guy who said Peppa Pig had a feminist message to it.
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Anna Komnene
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« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2016, 06:38:37 PM »

And Elsa is obviously a lesbian because she's single right?  Wow, Pence will fit right in with Trump.
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Dr. Arch
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« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2016, 06:39:51 PM »

Oh dear lord. Both of them stick their feet in their mouths in the most cringing and unbecomingly disappointing if not frustrating way possible.

#MassiveHPTicket
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Xing
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« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2016, 06:47:05 PM »

Childhood=Ruined.
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SUSAN CRUSHBONE
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« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2016, 06:49:10 PM »

there's the obvious implication about rebanning gays from the military, as well!
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evergreenarbor
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« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2016, 06:54:01 PM »

Oh dear lord. Both of them stick their feet in their mouths in the most cringing and unbecomingly disappointing if not frustrating way possible.

#MassiveHPTicket
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The Other Castro
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« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2016, 06:58:02 PM »

Did he miss the part where she saved China or when she singlehandedly took down an entire invading force of Huns with a single rocket?
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Ichabod
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« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2016, 08:25:09 PM »

And, of course, if somebody asks him for a courageous French woman, he's going to say ... Joan of Arc
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Bismarck
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« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2016, 09:11:37 PM »

If the worst dirt they have on Pence is that he made a stupid comment on radio twenty years ago then they are grasping at straws.
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Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
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« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2016, 10:06:53 PM »

America has lost its mind on the military.

Whether it is good or bad for women, LGBTs, or anyone else to serve in forward areas in combat, I don't know.  But military service is not a RIGHT; it is a PRIVILEGE that ought to be granted solely on the basis of what our military leaders believe to be in the best interest of the defense of America.  We've gone a long way down another road, mostly as a result of political forces.  Time will tell if this is good for the defense of America.  This is, however, an issue where political correctness has very truly silenced much of the legitimate debate of the cost/benefits to our country regarding our policy on who will and won't be allowed to serve.
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Badger
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« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2016, 12:23:36 AM »

America has lost its mind on the military.

Whether it is good or bad for women, LGBTs, or anyone else to serve in forward areas in combat, I don't know.  But military service is not a RIGHT; it is a PRIVILEGE that ought to be granted solely on the basis of what our military leaders believe to be in the best interest of the defense of America.  We've gone a long way down another road, mostly as a result of political forces.  Time will tell if this is good for the defense of America.  This is, however, an issue where political correctness has very truly silenced much of the legitimate debate of the cost/benefits to our country regarding our policy on who will and won't be allowed to serve.

I......think that debate's already been settled, FB. Like literally about a decade ago.
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Badger
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« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2016, 12:27:29 AM »

If the worst dirt they have on Pence is that he made a stupid comment on radio twenty years ago then they are grasping at straws.

He hasn't said or done a single thing in the intervening 17 years to indicate the slightest changing or softening of his views; not just about women in the military, but even his overall world view.

Seriously: Name one thing that indicates Pence doesn't still today have this the same bizzare neo-Talibanesque outlook on any issue you can think of.
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Weiner/Holder
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« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2016, 12:27:54 AM »

No one will know who Pence is even if he serves 8 years as Vice-President.  Digging dirt on something an unknown figure did so long ago isn't the best strategy and you'll see Hillary Clinton talking about other things.  This discussion might be good for a Friday night between two bleeding partisans but it's not a winning issue.
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cinyc
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« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2016, 12:33:25 AM »

America has lost its mind on the military.

Whether it is good or bad for women, LGBTs, or anyone else to serve in forward areas in combat, I don't know.  But military service is not a RIGHT; it is a PRIVILEGE that ought to be granted solely on the basis of what our military leaders believe to be in the best interest of the defense of America.  We've gone a long way down another road, mostly as a result of political forces.  Time will tell if this is good for the defense of America.  This is, however, an issue where political correctness has very truly silenced much of the legitimate debate of the cost/benefits to our country regarding our policy on who will and won't be allowed to serve.

I......think that debate's already been settled, FB. Like literally about a decade ago.

The issue of women is combat roles is far from settled.  I don't think the Obama administration's policy allowing women to serve in combat roles changed until this year or late last year, not "a decade ago".  And why is it that long-standing conservative policies are always open for review, while liberal policies are always settled, anyway?
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Badger
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« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2016, 12:38:18 AM »

America has lost its mind on the military.

Whether it is good or bad for women, LGBTs, or anyone else to serve in forward areas in combat, I don't know.  But military service is not a RIGHT; it is a PRIVILEGE that ought to be granted solely on the basis of what our military leaders believe to be in the best interest of the defense of America.  We've gone a long way down another road, mostly as a result of political forces.  Time will tell if this is good for the defense of America.  This is, however, an issue where political correctness has very truly silenced much of the legitimate debate of the cost/benefits to our country regarding our policy on who will and won't be allowed to serve.

I......think that debate's already been settled, FB. Like literally about a decade ago.

The issue of women is combat roles is far from settled.  I don't think the Obama administration's policy allowing women to serve in combat roles changed until this year or late last year, not "a decade ago".  And why is it that long-standing conservative policies are always open for review, while liberal policies are always settled, anyway?

Hmmmmm. So Mulan fooled us all, eh? How insidious. I guess I never saw Pence's genius revealed before now.
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Badger
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« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2016, 12:48:45 AM »
« Edited: July 19, 2016, 12:59:02 AM by Badger »

America has lost its mind on the military.

Whether it is good or bad for women, LGBTs, or anyone else to serve in forward areas in combat, I don't know.  But military service is not a RIGHT; it is a PRIVILEGE that ought to be granted solely on the basis of what our military leaders believe to be in the best interest of the defense of America.  We've gone a long way down another road, mostly as a result of political forces.  Time will tell if this is good for the defense of America.  This is, however, an issue where political correctness has very truly silenced much of the legitimate debate of the cost/benefits to our country regarding our policy on who will and won't be allowed to serve.

I......think that debate's already been settled, FB. Like literally about a decade ago.

The issue of women is combat roles is far from settled.  I don't think the Obama administration's policy allowing women to serve in combat roles changed until this year or late last year, not "a decade ago".  And why is it that long-standing conservative policies are always open for review, while liberal policies are always settled, anyway?

OK, more serious answer: First off, Afghanistan and (especially) Iraq put these questions to bed on the ground a lot quicker than the Pentagon and Washington were ready to acknowledge. The lack of a stable "front line" and the "non-combat" roles women were permitted to do including piloting APC's and attack copters (under officially limited, but practically nearly as dangerous conditions) led to women being involved in firefights, including being wounded and killed in combat. A significant number of women have been in active combat roles for much of the last decade.

As far as why liberal social policies aren't reversed, I suppose it's because by the time they're finally enacted into law tradition-minded conservatives have fought such progress until support for change was widespread enough that it wasn't ever likely going back. Slavery, women's sufferage, the right to organize and unionize, getting the vote for minorities, ending Jim Crow, expanding rights to employment and other opportunities to women, gay rights and marriage, etc.

And not once has the maelstrom social conservatives predicted would inevitably come to pass ever appear. So I guess never being right in the eyes of history has something to do with it too.
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Ogre Mage
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« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2016, 12:54:58 AM »

America has lost its mind on the military.

Whether it is good or bad for women, LGBTs, or anyone else to serve in forward areas in combat, I don't know.  But military service is not a RIGHT; it is a PRIVILEGE that ought to be granted solely on the basis of what our military leaders believe to be in the best interest of the defense of America.  We've gone a long way down another road, mostly as a result of political forces.  Time will tell if this is good for the defense of America.  This is, however, an issue where political correctness has very truly silenced much of the legitimate debate of the cost/benefits to our country regarding our policy on who will and won't be allowed to serve.

I......think that debate's already been settled, FB. Like literally about a decade ago.

The issue of women is combat roles is far from settled.  I don't think the Obama administration's policy allowing women to serve in combat roles changed until this year or late last year, not "a decade ago".  And why is it that long-standing conservative policies are always open for review, while liberal policies are always settled, anyway?

Women have been serving in combat roles on fighter jets (Air Force) and battleships (Navy) for more than a decade.  But in infantry they had previous been limited to combat support roles (combat medic, etc.).  It was this last barrier which has recently fallen.
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Anna Komnene
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« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2016, 01:12:40 AM »

One of my best friends served in Iraq, and I am damn proud of her for doing so.  She's talked to me about it and told me some horrible stories.  They scared me and I wasn't even there.  No idea how she was able to handle all that.  The biggest thing she always talks about though is the camaraderie between her and her squad mates.  It's obvious that they had a great bond and a lot of respect for each other.  I'd say that speaks louder than anything else.  I don't appreciate it when people who have never served criticize and diminish her service based on stereotypes, tbh.
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HAnnA MArin County
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« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2016, 03:30:43 AM »

Now we just need Trump to say that Aladdin was a liberal conspiracy because Muslims aren't good people; hence why we need to ban them.
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jaichind
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« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2016, 07:01:18 AM »

Well, Pence is correct in the sense that the Mulan(木蘭) story is completely fake and has no historical basis. It was based on a short and anonymous poem in the Northern Wei dynasty of around 400AD.  Then various people added to it until it became a drama.  The part where she married her superior officer was put in much later during the Ming Dynasty and if anything is a "conservative conspiracy"to try to clarify what a women aspirations should be.  The social ethos/culture of the Ming was much more socially conservative than the liberal Sung dynasty so there was some pressure to do this. There are a bunch of these Chinese dramas with women in combat of which the most famous beyond Mulan would the stories related to the Generals of the Yang Family (楊家將) of the Sung dynasty.  While these stories are based on 3 actual generals of the Sung Dynasty from the Yang Family almost 90% of the drama are made and not based on historical fact which includes a bunch of military exploits of the women of the Yang Family. 

These drama's exist exactly because the issue of women in combat in classical China was so beyond the pale  (although not women in political and military strategy making which did take place in an informal manner and people accepted it) that these dramas were non-controversial since everyone knew that the premise was absurd so it is best to sit back, not take it seriously,  and enjoy the play, similar to watching a Superman movie.
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