Is this morally justified in your opinion?

[Bojack Horseman]

This is hypothetical, but based on events in my family.

You and your spouse have been married for a few years. Your mother in law comes to visit, and while at your house, she has a stroke. Your spouse promised her a while ago that he/she would never put her in a nursing home, no matter how much she needs it. Four strokes and a diagnosis of Lewy Body Dementia later, he still refuses to put her in a nursing home, even though her care is becoming more and more exhausting and extensive, it's putting a drain on your finances, and you're worried about all the strange nurses coming in and out of the house at all hours of the day.

Is it justified to say, "Either put her in a nursing home, or I'm leaving."

[dead0man]

Yes.  spouse > parent

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

No. Promises, including both the promise to the mother and marriage vows, are meant to be kept.

[Higgs]

Yes

[Antonio the Sixth]

I'd like to say no, but I can imagine circumstances in which the situation would become physically and emotionally untenable, and I don't feel comfortable telling people to "just deal with it" without having firsthand experience.

[Illiniwek]

Yes.  spouse > parent

[Antonio the Sixth]

Yes.  spouse > parent

That's an utterly disgusting way to look at it.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Yes.  spouse > parent

That's an utterly disgusting way to look at it.

[angus]

Is it justified to say, "Either put her in a nursing home, or I'm leaving."

Only if you mean it.  If it's just an empty threat, then no.

Also, be prepared to leave and never come back, because my guess is that the spouse will say, "don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out."

[dax00]

Justified? - yes. Morally so? - subjective. And I won't get started on how I disagree with the notion of morality.

[dead0man]

Yes.  spouse > parent

That's an utterly disgusting way to look at it.

You are always so respectful to people who disagree with you, and always explain yourself so well.....is it hard to be so nice all the time?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Yes.  spouse > parent

That's an utterly disgusting way to look at it.

You are always so respectful to people who disagree with you, and always explain yourself so well.....is it hard to be so nice all the time?

If it came from someone else I'd admit to the criticism, but coming from you... lol.

[dead0man]

awww schucks, I feel so special.


Now, do you think a parent is more important than a spouse, or do you not like the idea of ranking their importance?  Nobody likes to be forced to rank their loved ones (especially the children), but we all do it, whether we admit it to ourselves or not.  My wife is much more important to me than my parents and my kids when they were young were more important than my spouse, but that kind of changes as they turn into teenagers and evolution tells them they have to hate* their parents (much more so with girls than boys for whatever reason) so it's emotionally easier for everybody when they leave...and the spouse goes back to being number 1 on the call sheet.


I'd like to find out why it's a disgusting way to look at things.  It's possible I'm wrong and can learn something from you.



*hyperbole

[Antonio the Sixth]

If it's a matter of basic moral principles, there's not much room for convincing anyone. I think it's disgusting that someone would even think of "ranking" their closest loved ones, as if their was a way to quantify and compare different types of love. I'm further disgusted by the idea that such ranking is supposed to be the relevant moral criterion, as opposed to, you know, right and wrong. If that offends you, sorry, but that's what I believe.

[dead0man]

Why do you always think I'm "offended" by things, it's very weird.  I don't even understand how I could be offended by anything you've posted in this thread.  Saying something I posted is disgusting doesn't make feel offended, it makes me feel curious (unless I understand the stupid reason the person said that, then it would make me smile).


There is no "right or wrong" here though.  It's not wrong to put your elderly and very sick mother in a nursing facility, even if you promised you never would 30 years ago.  It's for HER benefit, and yours, and your wife, and your kids if you have them or potential future kids.

[Antonio the Sixth]

There is no "right or wrong" here though.  It's not wrong to put your elderly and very sick mother in a nursing facility, even if you promised you never would 30 years ago.  It's for HER benefit, and yours, and your wife, and your kids if you have them or potential future kids.

Breaking a promise you made to a relative isn't wrong? Not even a little?

Still glad that you're making an actual moral argument here, rather than one based on some kind of inherent value of a type of relative over another. I take it you don't want to defend that abhorrent idea, so good news.

[dead0man]

There is no "right or wrong" here though.  It's not wrong to put your elderly and very sick mother in a nursing facility, even if you promised you never would 30 years ago.  It's for HER benefit, and yours, and your wife, and your kids if you have them or potential future kids.

Breaking a promise you made to a relative isn't wrong? Not even a little?

No, not if it's literally better for everyone involved.

[Antonio the Sixth]

There is no "right or wrong" here though.  It's not wrong to put your elderly and very sick mother in a nursing facility, even if you promised you never would 30 years ago.  It's for HER benefit, and yours, and your wife, and your kids if you have them or potential future kids.

Breaking a promise you made to a relative isn't wrong? Not even a little?

No, not if it's literally better for everyone involved.

It's not better for the person who received the promise and believed in it.

[dead0man]

But it very well could be.  People often go to those places because it's better for them, ya know, health wise.  Nurses visiting a few times a day isn't as good as a nurse always 20 feet away.  What if she doesn't even remember the promise because of dementia or Alzheimer's.  You're going to potentially ruin your marriage to keep a promise to a vegetable?

[Antonio the Sixth]

But it very well could be.  People often go to those places because it's better for them, ya know, health wise.  Nurses visiting a few times a day isn't as good as a nurse always 20 feet away.  What if she doesn't even remember the promise because of dementia or Alzheimer's.  You're going to potentially ruin your marriage to keep a promise to a vegetable?

Presumably she was well aware of all this when she made her child promise. Why would you think he'd know what she'd want if she could decide for herself better than past herself did? Or are you arguing that people should go against others' will if it's in their "best interest"? How very libertarian of you!

[dead0man]

Well I'm confused.  That second sentence had too many pronouns I think.  Broke something in the language corner of my brain (it's a small, dark and dusty corner).

[Antonio the Sixth]

All right.

Why would you think [child]'d know what [mother]'d want if [mother] could decide for herself better than [mother when she asked child to promise] did?

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

You're going to potentially ruin your marriage to keep a promise to a vegetable?

Go to hell.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

No.  Sometimes that's an unfortunate piece of the journey that comes with marriage (no, I've obviously never experienced marriage), and I think the possibility of something like that occurring is something a couple should accept when they're married.  "For better, for worse."  Words should have meaning.

Practically, though, I do believe it's better to have a team of nurses nearby who can act at moment's notice and are better equipped to help those who can't help themselves.  And by that same token, I don't quite agree with passing to one's kids the moral obligation to completely dismiss the possible need for a nursing home if it becomes necessary.  That's the way my mother feels and it's the same way I would feel if I had children.

But for the love of God, dead0... stop.

[Ban my account ffs!]

No.  Absolutely not.  You work it out and you show some empathy for someone caring for and keeping their promise to their very sick mom.

"I'm going to break my vow to you because you won't break yours to your mom" while making them pick between spouse or mother?

If she didn't want to be in a nursing home...putting her in one will result in a speedy death.