John Kerry and the Catholic Church
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Author Topic: John Kerry and the Catholic Church  (Read 10303 times)
Chiahead
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« on: April 23, 2004, 11:03:35 AM »

Just curious...
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ShapeShifter
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« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2004, 11:40:40 AM »

You know how many Catholics are pro-choice? I don't know but I bet is more than a few people. Should they not receive communion? According to the church, aren't we ALL sinners? So, should everyone not receive communion?

See this is the VERY inconsistency that motivated me to get out of the Catholic Church and into my own mind and think for myself.
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Chiahead
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« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2004, 12:22:58 PM »

My problem with it is...He can say he is pro-choice, but does that mean that he is pro-abortion or anti-aborition?  He says that people have the right to choose, but what does he personnaly believe?  Bush came out and says he against it all the way, but Kerry is just pleasing everybody.
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ShapeShifter
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« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2004, 12:34:15 PM »
« Edited: April 23, 2004, 12:34:47 PM by ShapeShifter »

My problem with it is...He can say he is pro-choice, but does that mean that he is pro-abortion or anti-aborition?  He says that people have the right to choose, but what does he personnaly believe?  Bush came out and says he against it all the way, but Kerry is just pleasing everybody.

Of course he is not pro-abortion!?!?!

God, that is sick to imply that someone is pro-abortion because they are pro-choice.

I am pro-choice and pro- reducing the number of abortions by providing adequte reproductive health care. Maybe the number abortions will dramatically be reduce and the wieght of the issue will be deminished.


So we can move on to more practical and more important issues than an ideological one.
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Brambila
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« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2004, 12:35:36 PM »

No. He cannot.

The thing is, Catholics believe that Christ's BODY, BLOOD, SOUL, and DIVINITY is in communion. What looks, tastes, feels, and has all the characteristics of BREAD is truly CHRIST. So we respect Christ in this form as much as possible. Catholics who are in mortal sin commit another mortal sin if they recieve communion. We also fast before recieving communion. We want our OWN body and soul to be pure. So if there's sin and food in our stomach's, it's extremely disrespectful to recieve communion, and if you're in mortal sin, another mortal sin to recieve communion.

John Kerry is in mortal sin because he supports abortion. Since the Catholic Church clearly teaches that abortion is the murder of an innocent child, John Kerry is campaigning to support abortion. Catholics who support abortion are in mortal sin.

Since John Kerry is in mortal sin, he has absolutely NO right to recieve communion. Not only will he go further into sin, but he's being EXTREMELY disrepectful to somebody he claims to worship. Kerry CANNOT have his own version of Catholicism! THERE'S ONE VERSION. YOU MUST ACCEPT IT ALL.  

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Chiahead
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« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2004, 12:46:12 PM »

My problem with it is...He can say he is pro-choice, but does that mean that he is pro-abortion or anti-aborition?  He says that people have the right to choose, but what does he personnaly believe?  Bush came out and says he against it all the way, but Kerry is just pleasing everybody.



Of course he is not pro-abortion!?!?!

God, that is sick to imply that someone is pro-abortion because they are pro-choice.

I am pro-choice and pro- reducing the number of abortions by providing adequte reproductive health care. Maybe the number abortions will dramatically be reduce and the wieght of the issue will be deminished.


So we can move on to more practical and more important issues than an ideological one.

Being pro-choice is just like turning your back on murder...
He may be pro-life, but he should take a stand and say it's wrong...I know legally it can't be stopped now, but he should at least stand against it.  
Pro choice basically says I can't stop what other people do.

Reproductive healthcare won't help reduce the number of that many abortions.  The reason people get abortions are mostly due to the fact that they don't want the child.  It's not always that they can't afford the child.  It's disgusting to think that you would want to abort a child because you can't afford it.  

There is nothing wrong with being Idealistic....Ideals are the beginning of being practical!
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ShapeShifter
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« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2004, 12:51:20 PM »

My problem with it is...He can say he is pro-choice, but does that mean that he is pro-abortion or anti-aborition?  He says that people have the right to choose, but what does he personnaly believe?  Bush came out and says he against it all the way, but Kerry is just pleasing everybody.



Of course he is not pro-abortion!?!?!

God, that is sick to imply that someone is pro-abortion because they are pro-choice.

I am pro-choice and pro- reducing the number of abortions by providing adequte reproductive health care. Maybe the number abortions will dramatically be reduce and the wieght of the issue will be deminished.


So we can move on to more practical and more important issues than an ideological one.

Being pro-choice is just like turning your back on murder...
He may be pro-life, but he should take a stand and say it's wrong...I know legally it can't be stopped now, but he should at least stand against it.  
Pro choice basically says I can't stop what other people do.

Reproductive healthcare won't help reduce the number of that many abortions.  The reason people get abortions are mostly due to the fact that they don't want the child.  It's not always that they can't afford the child.  It's disgusting to think that you would want to abort a child because you can't afford it.  

There is nothing wrong with being Idealistic....Ideals are the beginning of being practical!

now, i know better not to reply to your post, because...  your just going to say the same thing over and over and over... and i will just give you a chance to spew your rhetoric and morals .... and correct me if I am wrong, wasnt the topic about the caholic church and communion?!?!?!
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ShapeShifter
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« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2004, 12:52:16 PM »

My problem with it is...He can say he is pro-choice, but does that mean that he is pro-abortion or anti-aborition?  He says that people have the right to choose, but what does he personnaly believe?  Bush came out and says he against it all the way, but Kerry is just pleasing everybody.

Wasn't the question about the catholic church? you are not curious, you just want to have an opening to critize Kerry.
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ShapeShifter
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« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2004, 12:53:30 PM »
« Edited: April 23, 2004, 12:53:54 PM by ShapeShifter »

No. He cannot.

The thing is, Catholics believe that Christ's BODY, BLOOD, SOUL, and DIVINITY is in communion. What looks, tastes, feels, and has all the characteristics of BREAD is truly CHRIST. So we respect Christ in this form as much as possible. Catholics who are in mortal sin commit another mortal sin if they recieve communion. We also fast before recieving communion. We want our OWN body and soul to be pure. So if there's sin and food in our stomach's, it's extremely disrespectful to recieve communion, and if you're in mortal sin, another mortal sin to recieve communion.

John Kerry is in mortal sin because he supports abortion. Since the Catholic Church clearly teaches that abortion is the murder of an innocent child, John Kerry is campaigning to support abortion. Catholics who support abortion are in mortal sin.

Since John Kerry is in mortal sin, he has absolutely NO right to recieve communion. Not only will he go further into sin, but he's being EXTREMELY disrepectful to somebody he claims to worship. Kerry CANNOT have his own version of Catholicism! THERE'S ONE VERSION. YOU MUST ACCEPT IT ALL.  



calm down, it's only bread
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© tweed
Miamiu1027
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« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2004, 03:23:56 PM »

Rudy Giuliani is pro-choice also.
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ShapeShifter
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« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2004, 03:30:01 PM »


That is why he ROCKS! Moderate Republican. I would take one any day over a ultra-Conservative. He also is from NY! Smiley
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angus
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« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2004, 03:33:41 PM »

I'm pretty sure everyone in my family is pro-choice as well, even the serious practicing catholics (which is a good many in my family).  As to the question, it seems a little out of place.  I'm not sure Bush's or Kerry's religious beliefs, or lack thereof, is a consideration for me when I vote, and in any case, it's up to the Church and to Kerry's conscience if he wants to take communion.  I think any reasonable priest would not prohibit Kerry this Sacriment though.  Hell, I have absolutely no religious convictions whatsoever, and my lazy, fat, cigar-smoking, whore-chasing Monsignor knows it, but we still have a few laughs and a few whiskeys whenever I happen to be around, and he tries to talk me into taking communion.  No thanks.
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KEmperor
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« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2004, 04:11:48 PM »

That's between him and his church.
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Nation
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« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2004, 04:30:15 PM »

It looks like this is turning into another abortion thread --


As a born and raised Catholic (I can't renounce my Catholicism but I'm more of a non-denominational Christian now) there are many Catholics who do not believe exactly what the Pope believes, who are pro-choice, among other things.

It's not really anyone's business whether he gets communion or not.
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migrendel
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« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2004, 04:54:02 PM »

The Catholic Church can do what they like, but it only serves to reveal how far out of touch they are with the modern world.
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The Dowager Mod
texasgurl
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« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2004, 04:56:58 PM »

the catholic church needs to stay out of politics.
saying kerry shouldn't recieve communion is a blatant attempt to interfere with the political process.
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Chiahead
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« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2004, 08:24:12 PM »

My problem with it is...He can say he is pro-choice, but does that mean that he is pro-abortion or anti-aborition?  He says that people have the right to choose, but what does he personnaly believe?  Bush came out and says he against it all the way, but Kerry is just pleasing everybody.

Wasn't the question about the catholic church? you are not curious, you just want to have an opening to critize Kerry.

I didnt' bring up Kerry being pro-choice as the issue, until you brought it up in your post...and I answered it.  

I answer you the same way, because you always say practical vs. idealogical...which is irrelevant, since idealogies are discussed all the time.  Beliefs aren't always practical.
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Brambila
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« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2004, 10:41:25 PM »

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Besides your embarassing attempt to insult the Catholics on the board, your point (if I can call it that) means nothing. John Kerry is doing something EXTREMELY disrespectful to the Church (it's one of the most- if not, the most insulting and disrespectful things to do in Catholicism) and therefore, as Cardinal Arinze has made clear, should be ended.

Somebody who claims to be a devout Catholic and pro-choice is nothing more than a devout heretic.

Of_thisnation, it's completely the Church's business. The job of the priest is to give communion to those who are spiritually qualified. If you don't believe what the Pope says, if you are pro-choice, you are NOT a Catholic. To be a Catholic you must believe in EVERYTHING the church teaches, not just some. That's how heresies come about.

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Explain.

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First of all, the Catholic Church has EVERY right to get into politics, but that's irrelivent. The point is Kerry is in mortal sin, and people who are in mortal sin are committing a bigger sin by recieving communion. We don't just reject communion to politicians- many priest reject giving communion to many people who are not spiritually fit.

You MUST be 100% in faith with Catholicism to recieve communion, otherwise you're committing a sin.
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opebo
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« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2004, 10:45:38 PM »

I couldn't care less about that Papist mumbo-jumbo.
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Kodratos
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« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2004, 11:12:53 AM »

According to the church, aren't we ALL sinners? So, should everyone not receive communion?

Yes, but he is SUPPORTING sin, not sinning and asking for forgiveness.
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Chiahead
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« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2004, 12:39:11 PM »

According to the church, aren't we ALL sinners? So, should everyone not receive communion?

Yes, but he is SUPPORTING sin, not sinning and asking for forgiveness.

I like that Smiley
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Gustaf
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« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2004, 01:16:10 PM »

This is an issue for the chruch, and shouldn't be political at all.
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Chiahead
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« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2004, 01:18:37 PM »

This is an issue for the chruch, and shouldn't be political at all.

I like this even better! Smiley
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Brambila
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« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2004, 01:39:22 PM »

Gustaf, you're ABSOLUTELY correct. Going to Church shouldn't be a political thing. If Kerry is not worthy of recieving communion, that's for the Church to decide.
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Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon
htmldon
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« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2004, 01:46:51 PM »

I'm no fan of John Kerry, but this whole thing is bullsh**t.

If Brambila accurately describes Cathoic doctrine, thank heavens for the reformation.
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