Four myths in the GOP Platform

[Maxwell]

http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2016/07/four-myths-in-the-gop-platform-000172

1. Democrats dismantled our healthcare system (not even close to true)
2. Doubled our national debt (in the way it is really measured, not true and deficits have gone down nearly every year under Obama unlike GWB or any recent Republican administration)
3. Refusing to control our borders (net migration from Mexico in 2014 was ZERO, Obama has deported more Mexican immigrants than any President before him, the number of illegal immigrants hasn't budged an inch under his Presidency)
4. Government's housing policy caused the financial crisis (rofl lmao)

Literally the crux of the GOP argument (immigration) is a lie. If anything, Obama is the border security CHAMP, which I am not especially proud of but it is the truth.

[sparkey]

This is an opinion piece, not factchecking.

(1) and (3) are pure semantics -- how do you define "dismantled" and "refuse to control"?

The piece even says (2) is "technically correct" and then mention another debt figure that is also "a significant increase"--what was the point again?

For (4) you could argue that the consensus is that the government's housing policies were a contributor to the crisis, but not the primary cause; although even then you have analysts like FCIC member Peter Wallison who argue that it was indeed the primary cause.

[EliteLX]

http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2016/07/four-myths-in-the-gop-platform-000172

1. Democrats dismantled our healthcare system (not even close to true)
2. Doubled our national debt (in the way it is really measured, not true and deficits have gone down nearly every year under Obama unlike GWB or any recent Republican administration)
3. Refusing to control our borders (net migration from Mexico in 2014 was ZERO, Obama has deported more Mexican immigrants than any President before him, the number of illegal immigrants hasn't budged an inch under his Presidency)
4. Government's housing policy caused the financial crisis (rofl lmao)

Literally the crux of the GOP argument (immigration) is a lie. If anything, Obama is the border security CHAMP, which I am not especially proud of but it is the truth.

You're not exactly proud of border security? What the f[uc]k?

[Nyvin]

(1) and (3) are pure semantics -- how do you define "dismantled" and "refuse to control"?

(1) how many people were uninsured in 2010 and how many are uninsured now?

(2) how many illegal immigrants were in the country (estimate) in 2009 and how many illegal immigrants are in the country now (estimate)?

[Maxwell]

http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2016/07/four-myths-in-the-gop-platform-000172

1. Democrats dismantled our healthcare system (not even close to true)
2. Doubled our national debt (in the way it is really measured, not true and deficits have gone down nearly every year under Obama unlike GWB or any recent Republican administration)
3. Refusing to control our borders (net migration from Mexico in 2014 was ZERO, Obama has deported more Mexican immigrants than any President before him, the number of illegal immigrants hasn't budged an inch under his Presidency)
4. Government's housing policy caused the financial crisis (rofl lmao)

Literally the crux of the GOP argument (immigration) is a lie. If anything, Obama is the border security CHAMP, which I am not especially proud of but it is the truth.

You're not exactly proud of border security? What the f[uc]k?

I don't like deporting people from this country and think we can do better in terms of making them more permanent citizens by putting them on a pathway to citizenship. We can also expand enforcement of laws on the books that prevent people from hiring illegal immigrants. Cutting off incentives will be far cheaper and better than some dumb wall boondoggle that will probably get built by illegal labor anyway.

[Beet]

The main point is that net illegal migration from Mexico has basically stopped, it plummeted after 2007 and never recovered. The whole illegal immigration problem was largely a Bush era phenom and the country just hasn't woken up to it yet.

[RaphaelDLG]

For (4) you could argue that the consensus is that the government's housing policies were a contributor to the crisis, but not the primary cause; although even then you have analysts like FCIC member Peter Wallison who argue that it was indeed the primary cause.

No economist I know of thinks that fannie mae and freddie mac were anything but a tiny percentage of the subprime market, and Wallison's view has been widely discredited by economists.  And I don't necessarily agree with the policies of mae/mac at the time.

So many trillions of dollars of garbage housing loans were originated because middlemen like Goldman saw a quick buck to be made by begging poor people to imprudently borrow money from them, then packaging those loans into impossible to understand CDOs and dumping them onto the laps of hapless suckers like AIG, who bought them not understanding what they were and thinking that they were great.  THAT was the cause of the financial crisis.

It was made worse by the people who were allowed to start gambling against the housing market using reckless instruments, which took a failing banking system and poured gasoline all over it.

ETA:  Firms like Goldman had an incestuous relationship with ratings agencies, which helped to convince the suckers that the CDOs were actually a totally great buy.  Eventually, of course, firms were overleveraged and the government had to step in to stop a run on banks.

[136or142]

For (4) you could argue that the consensus is that the government's housing policies were a contributor to the crisis, but not the primary cause; although even then you have analysts like FCIC member Peter Wallison who argue that it was indeed the primary cause.

No economist I know of thinks that fannie mae and freddie mac were anything but a tiny percentage of the subprime market, and Wallison's view has been widely discredited by economists.  And I don't necessarily agree with the policies of mae/mac at the time.

So many trillions of dollars of garbage housing loans were originated because middlemen like Goldman saw a quick buck to be made by begging poor people to imprudently borrow money from them, then packaging those loans into impossible to understand CDOs and dumping them onto the laps of hapless suckers like AIG, who bought them not understanding what they were and thinking that they were great.  THAT was the cause of the financial crisis.

It was made worse by the people who were allowed to start gambling against the housing market using reckless instruments, which took a failing banking system and poured gasoline all over it.

ETA:  Firms like Goldman had an incestuous relationship with ratings agencies, which helped to convince the suckers that the CDOs were actually a totally great buy.  Eventually, of course, firms were overleveraged and the government had to step in to stop a run on banks.

Of course the fraudulent companies (though apparently not criminally fraudulent) that engaged in the NINJA loans are the most to blame.  There is some bipartisan blame as the vast majority of members of both parties bought into the nonsensical Washington Consensus that 'financial markets regulate themselves, however I think the majority of the blame to be placed on the government belongs to the Republican Chair of the Federal Reserve Board, the idiot Alan Greenspan, and the Republican Chair of the Securities and Exchange Commission, Chris Cox.

The revisionist history blaming Fannie Mae or Freddy Mac or Bill Clinton's banning of 'red lining' are nothing but blatant lies.

[Redban]

http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2016/07/four-myths-in-the-gop-platform-000172

3. Refusing to control our borders (net migration from Mexico in 2014 was ZERO, Obama has deported more Mexican immigrants than any President before him, the number of illegal immigrants hasn't budged an inch under his Presidency)

Firstly, your points about "net migration" and overall "number of illegal immigrants" don't show that Obama controlled the borders. In actuality, net migration stopped and the number of illegal aliens remained steady because the economy has been poor since 2008.

Secondly, Obama has not actually deported more illegal aliens than any President before him did. Instead, the Obama administration altered the definition of "removals" to include people sent back immediately at the border, which didn't count as a deportation in the past. If you exclude those at-the-border "removals," then overall deportations is at 69,478 --- roughly 25% less than the amount of deportations that occurred annually under George W. Bush.

Even Obama admitted that his deportations statistics are "deceptive" for this reason:

http://thehill.com/policy/technology/184393-obama-calls-for-pathway-to-citizenship-in-online-talk

[Lyin' Steve]

This is so stupid and why people don't trust fact checking at all.  It's basically "they said Obama is bad, well I don't think he's bad MYTH!". Or "they said he doubled the national debt, which is true but he didn't double this other number that has nothing to do with the conversation MYTH!"

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

ACA affected a lot more than the individual insurance market.  Look at the push to consolidate hospitals for instance, or change other healthcare practice in other ways. 

Debt doubling is pretty much true, if you look at $ amounts, the article admitted as much. Annual deficits have gone down, but that is after a huge increase at the beginning. Longterm deficits are still a major problem. 

I'm not really interested in reading any further after the misrepresentation over the first 2 points.  Obviously the RNC platform is an exercise in political polemics, and so is this article.

[136or142]

This is so stupid and why people don't trust fact checking at all.  It's basically "they said Obama is bad, well I don't think he's bad MYTH!". Or "they said he doubled the national debt, which is true but he didn't double this other number that has nothing to do with the conversation MYTH!"

The 'other number' is actually very significant to the conversation as the article was completely correct that most economists regard the debt to GDP ratio as being much more important than the raw debt/deficit figure.

It would be more accurate to say though that both are ways to look at the debt, and that it is true that Obama more or less doubled the size of the national debt.

Of course, when Reagan was President and the debt and deficits increased significantly despite his campaign promise to eliminate the deficit, Republicans blamed the Democratic Congress because Constitutionally Congress is responsible for the budgets (especially the House of Representatives).

Similarly, when Bill Clinton was President and the deficit was eliminated Republicans gave the Republican majority Congress the credit, and Newt Gingrich and John Kasich even took personal credit.

So, if Republicans actually cared about intellectual honesty, then from the 2011 budgets on, then it's the Republican House of Representatives that is to blame for the increase in the deficit, and not President Obama.

[SillyAmerican]

This is so stupid and why people don't trust fact checking at all.  It's basically "they said Obama is bad, well I don't think he's bad MYTH!". Or "they said he doubled the national debt, which is true but he didn't double this other number that has nothing to do with the conversation MYTH!"

Absolutely right. But if you want to discuss MYTHS, be sure to include the set of Hillary's MYTHS, several of which I'm sure will be made a part of the DNC.