Clinton picks Kaine for veep

[Gass3268]

Free trade being, in general, a good thing does not mean that every given free trade agreement is automatically good or that all people of good will are somehow morally bound to support all of them, and the fact that not every free trade agreement is automatically good and all people of good will are not somehow morally bound to support all of them does not mean that free trade is not, in general, a good thing. I'm amazed that this is apparently such an unpopular position here.

I know that my opposition to free trade comes from growing up in the Midwest where this issue is very negative. I know that if I grew up in the coasts, a place where there are some benefits, I would probably be more supportive.

[evergreenarbor]

Free trade being, in general, a good thing does not mean that every given free trade agreement is automatically good or that all people of good will are somehow morally bound to support all of them, and the fact that not every free trade agreement is automatically good and all people of good will are not somehow morally bound to support all of them does not mean that free trade is not, in general, a good thing. I'm amazed that this is apparently such an unpopular position here.

Exactly. I like trade in general. I don't think protectionism is good economic policy. But the dispute resolution provisions in the TPP make me very uneasy with it.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Free trade being, in general, a good thing does not mean that every given free trade agreement is automatically good or that all people of good will are somehow morally bound to support all of them, and the fact that not every free trade agreement is automatically good and all people of good will are not somehow morally bound to support all of them does not mean that free trade is not, in general, a good thing. I'm amazed that this is apparently such an unpopular position here.

Exactly. I like trade in general. I don't think protectionism is good economic policy. But the dispute resolution provisions in the TPP make me very uneasy with it.

Considering the US got one of the better deals out of the TPP...

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Clinton passed the "don't pick a Berniebro VP" test. She still has my vote for now.

[Ebowed]

No one cares about the TPP.

I listen to a popular, progressive, and union friendly talk radio show in the Madison, WI area (with a big enough signal to go into Northern Illinois and Eastern Iowa) and anti-TPP and anti-free trade is the main issue on almost every show. The issue resonates with people.

People it resonates with should vote Trump.

Asinine, I have to tell you that you are an absolutely terrible advocate for your causes.

We already have free trade agreements with the countries in the TPP.  Opposing the TPP is not the same thing as being anti-free trade.

[KingSweden]

MSNBC just reported that Kaine has made it clear that he will now oppose TPP as part of the Clinton ticket.

Oh well. If this is what it takes to get the loud and influential anti-free trade wing of the party onboard, so be it. Politicians are really bad at selling the benefits of these agreements and an even worse job mitigating their admittedly unfortunate side effects

Are there benefits? Other than cheeper goods being imported from overseas, where is the benefit? I'm all in favor of reducing barriers with countries with similar economies (I would have been cool with a Canada only NAFTA or deals Western Europe/Japan, etc), but that's not why these deals are signed.

You must remember I'm thoroughly neoliberal, friend. I think there are strong advantages to consumers and people who work in services. I concur that trade deals with dissimilar economies is disadvantageous, and my ideal free trade zone would be something similar to the EU. Still, more open economies has helped lift millions out of poverty around the world, though not nearly enough and certainly not fast enough.

My main prob with free trade is that after the deals are signed nobody does anything to alleviate the industries affected by them. Laid off workers need help that they haven't received.

[KingSweden]

Free trade being, in general, a good thing does not mean that every given free trade agreement is automatically good or that all people of good will are somehow morally bound to support all of them, and the fact that not every free trade agreement is automatically good and all people of good will are not somehow morally bound to support all of them does not mean that free trade is not, in general, a good thing. I'm amazed that this is apparently such an unpopular position here.

Exactly. I like trade in general. I don't think protectionism is good economic policy. But the dispute resolution provisions in the TPP make me very uneasy with it.

My thoughts too. There are some things in TPP that need some serious revisions, but I like that it liberalizes access for US services in foreign markets. And I abhor the idea of China dictating Asia's trade rules...

[dspNY]

Kaine is the only southerner on either ticket (or at least the only person representing a southern state)

[NOVA Green]

Nothing against Kaine in particular, as a Bernie supporter resigned to support Hillary, as the lesser of two evils, especially since she adopted key Bernie issues as part of the Democratic Party platform....

It isn't going to swing my wife's opinion where a Sherrod Brown or Merkeley VP might have moved the needle a bit.

Hard to see how this will hurt Hillary in the Dem base overall...

Not excited, and obviously little attempt to outreach to Bernie voters, most significantly middle-aged working and middle-class Democrats from rural and small-town America, where Trump will likely do very well.

End of day VP pick isn't really going to change the dynamics of the reach much, and both Trump and Hillary "took a safety" on their respective nominees.

[Vega]

Kaine is the only southerner on either ticket (or at least the only person representing a southern state)

One could make the argument  that Indiana is far more southern than Virginia is today.

[DINGO Joe]

Kaine is the only southerner on either ticket (or at least the only person representing a southern state)

He actually not a Southerner by birth (raised a soothing midwesterner), but being mayor of black majority city and Lt. Gov, Gov and Senator of VA has given him experience across a wide range of constituencies.  Throw in the time in Honduras and he has a pretty wide range of life experience.

[Maxwell]

Kaine is the only southerner on either ticket (or at least the only person representing a southern state)

One could make the argument  that Indiana is far more southern than Virginia is today.

well Indiana has always been a strange place.

[fldemfunds]

Whether you like the pick or not, the roll out for this was the exact opposite of whatever you want to call Donald trumps dumpster fire of a roll out.

[Panda Express]

Well, I hope the Clinton campaign knows what they are doing. I'm assuming they did a lot of testing and polling and focus-grouping. I'm not really enthused about Kaine and I'm concerned playing it too safe/cautious will cost her the election. The Dems have a long history of losing when they are boring (Dukakis, Gore, Kerry) and frankly, being too cautious and safe is why Hillary got stomped by B. Obama in 2008.

[Nyvin]

Whether you like the pick or not, the roll out for this was the exact opposite of whatever you want to call Donald trumps dumpster fire of a roll out.

At least there won't be an incredibly awkward interview with Hillary and Kaine with Hillary needing to interupt every 3 seconds.

[Frodo]

So, with a Catholic VP candidate on the Dem ticket and the Pope not being very enthusiastic about Trump, it would be interesting to see how excited conservative Catholics will be about the Republican nominee

Conservative Catholics aren't going to vote for Hillary, period.

Trump and Hillary are both abominations to them, I would imagine.  But if they were to weigh between whether Mike Pence or Tim Kaine is a better representative for them, whom do you think they would pick?  

Kaine and Pence are both heretics but only one supports genocide.

They both oppose abortion.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Social/Tim_Kaine_Abortion.htm

[IceSpear]

Well, I hope the Clinton campaign knows what they are doing. I'm assuming they did a lot of testing and polling and focus-grouping. I'm not really enthused about Kaine and I'm concerned playing it too safe/cautious will cost her the election. The Dems have a long history of losing when they are boring (Dukakis, Gore, Kerry) and frankly, being too cautious and safe is why Hillary got stomped by B. Obama in 2008.

Seems kind of odd to draw broad conclusions based off 2000 or the 2008 primary considering they were decided by a knife's edge. You must have a very strange definition of "stomped."

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

No one cares about the TPP.

I listen to a popular, progressive, and union friendly talk radio show in the Madison, WI area (with a big enough signal to go into Northern Illinois and Eastern Iowa) and anti-TPP and anti-free trade is the main issue on almost every show. The issue resonates with people.

People it resonates with should vote Trump.

Asinine, I have to tell you that you are an absolutely terrible advocate for your causes.

We already have free trade agreements with the countries in the TPP.  Opposing the TPP is not the same thing as being anti-free trade.

Plus, the burden should be on the supporters of TPP to justify it being ratified.  It's not in place now and we don't have "protectionism."

[psychprofessor]

kaine will provide great outreach into the latino community and dominate spanish language television. he also provides legitimate  social justice cred; has a son in the military, is catholic and spent a year in honduras on a jesuit mission. when republicans across the aisle have nice things to say about you, i think you made a pretty good pick. in the year of chaos and both candidates having high unfavorables, having someone on the ticket that, you know, is actually nice and has an optimistic demeanor may go a long way...

[dspNY]

kaine will provide great outreach into the latino community and dominate spanish language television. he also provides legitimate  social justice cred; has a son in the military, is catholic and spent a year in honduras on a jesuit mission. when republicans across the aisle have nice things to say about you, i think you made a pretty good pick. in the year of chaos and both candidates having high unfavorables, having someone on the ticket that, you know, is actually nice and has an optimistic demeanor may go a long way...

Pat Toomey saying nice things about Kaine tells you where the Presidential race in Pennsylvania stands, that's for sure

[DS0816]

This makes my decision easy.




I look forward to voting for Jill Stein.

[Bigby]

I think her rationale was to play it safe, but she's only antagonized the left flank of her party even more. Looks like it's going to be a race between Johnson and Stein to see who gets more of the disaffecteds.

[Higgs]

Ayy called it.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

I think her rationale was to play it safe, but she's only antagonized the left flank of her party even more. Looks like it's going to be a race between Johnson and Stein to see who gets more of the disaffecteds.

Nope. Trump (along with his cultists and lickspittles) has, does, and will anger/scare the left too much. We're going to vote for her and hate ourselves for at least the next four years.  


(Although her campaign could always implode before November, I suppose.)

[RI]

So, with a Catholic VP candidate on the Dem ticket and the Pope not being very enthusiastic about Trump, it would be interesting to see how excited conservative Catholics will be about the Republican nominee

Conservative Catholics aren't going to vote for Hillary, period.

Trump and Hillary are both abominations to them, I would imagine.  But if they were to weigh between whether Mike Pence or Tim Kaine is a better representative for them, whom do you think they would pick?  

Kaine and Pence are both heretics but only one supports genocide.

They both oppose abortion.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Social/Tim_Kaine_Abortion.htm

Supporting Roe v. Wade is not opposing abortion. Being "personally opposed" means jacksh**t if you support it remaining legal. No Catholic politician in good standing with the Church can take such a position.