Clinton picks Kaine for veep

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

So, with a Catholic VP candidate on the Dem ticket and the Pope not being very enthusiastic about Trump, it would be interesting to see how excited conservative Catholics will be about the Republican nominee

Conservative Catholics aren't going to vote for Hillary, period.

Trump and Hillary are both abominations to them, I would imagine.  But if they were to weigh between whether Mike Pence or Tim Kaine is a better representative for them, whom do you think they would pick?  

Kaine and Pence are both heretics but only one supports genocide.

They both oppose abortion.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Social/Tim_Kaine_Abortion.htm

Supporting Roe v. Wade is not opposing abortion. Being "personally opposed" means jacksh**t if you support it remaining legal. No Catholic politician in good standing with the Church can take such a position.

I mean, it means he's uncomfortable with the creepy 'abortion a positive good'-type rhetoric that's suddenly started replacing 'safe, legal, and rare' among American liberals, which is more than one probably could have expected from anyone else Clinton could have chosen.

[Blue3]

So, with a Catholic VP candidate on the Dem ticket and the Pope not being very enthusiastic about Trump, it would be interesting to see how excited conservative Catholics will be about the Republican nominee

Conservative Catholics aren't going to vote for Hillary, period.

Trump and Hillary are both abominations to them, I would imagine.  But if they were to weigh between whether Mike Pence or Tim Kaine is a better representative for them, whom do you think they would pick?  

Kaine and Pence are both heretics but only one supports genocide.

They both oppose abortion.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Social/Tim_Kaine_Abortion.htm

Supporting Roe v. Wade is not opposing abortion. Being "personally opposed" means jacksh**t if you support it remaining legal. No Catholic politician in good standing with the Church can take such a position.

Tell that to Joe Biden and countless other politicians.

Pope Francis himself has rejected this view.

[RI]

So, with a Catholic VP candidate on the Dem ticket and the Pope not being very enthusiastic about Trump, it would be interesting to see how excited conservative Catholics will be about the Republican nominee

Conservative Catholics aren't going to vote for Hillary, period.

Trump and Hillary are both abominations to them, I would imagine.  But if they were to weigh between whether Mike Pence or Tim Kaine is a better representative for them, whom do you think they would pick?  

Kaine and Pence are both heretics but only one supports genocide.

They both oppose abortion.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Social/Tim_Kaine_Abortion.htm

Supporting Roe v. Wade is not opposing abortion. Being "personally opposed" means jacksh**t if you support it remaining legal. No Catholic politician in good standing with the Church can take such a position.

I mean, it means he's uncomfortable with the creepy 'abortion a positive good'-type rhetoric that's suddenly started replacing 'safe, legal, and rare' among American liberals, which is more than one probably could have expected from anyone else Clinton could have chosen.

In some ways, it's better; in some ways, it's worse. How would Dems feel about a GOP candidate who said they were personally opposed to discriminating against gays, but we shouldn't force others to not discriminate? Or someone who was personally opposed to the death penalty, but thought they shouldn't force that on others? Or someone who said they were personally opposed to cops shooting innocent black people, but it's not my right to make that choice for them! It would be little comfort at best, and downright infuriating at worst as they can see the problem but choose not to do a thing about it despite recognizing the harm to others.

[RI]

So, with a Catholic VP candidate on the Dem ticket and the Pope not being very enthusiastic about Trump, it would be interesting to see how excited conservative Catholics will be about the Republican nominee

Conservative Catholics aren't going to vote for Hillary, period.

Trump and Hillary are both abominations to them, I would imagine.  But if they were to weigh between whether Mike Pence or Tim Kaine is a better representative for them, whom do you think they would pick? 

Kaine and Pence are both heretics but only one supports genocide.

They both oppose abortion.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Social/Tim_Kaine_Abortion.htm

Supporting Roe v. Wade is not opposing abortion. Being "personally opposed" means jacksh**t if you support it remaining legal. No Catholic politician in good standing with the Church can take such a position.

Tell that to Joe Biden and countless other politicians.

Pope Francis himself has rejected this view.

Yeah, I will. Biden is also a terrible Catholic who sacrificed his integrity and possibly his soul so he could have his career. He likely commits sacrilege every time he takes communion. Kaine is the same.

I don't know what you're talking about with regard to the Pope. The debate about pro-abortion pols and communion is a complicated one, but I'm not sure if that's what you're referring to.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I think it's more worthwhile focusing our energies on people like [Inks]ing Cuomo, who takes the opposite of the Catholic Church's position on almost literally every issue of substance. IIRC he gave up entirely on a ten-point women's rights program after a point expanding late-term abortion was rejected, even though the legislature was perfectly happy to pass the other nine points. This was after he cut funding for poor and teenage mothers.

[RI]

I think it's more worthwhile focusing our energies on people like [Inks]ing Cuomo, who takes the opposite of the Catholic Church's position on almost literally every issue of substance.

I have zero love for Cuomo, but the idea was raised that Kaine somehow wins over non-cafeteria Catholic votes simply because of his purported identity (some news articles are pushing the "Kaine is a Pope Francis Catholic" line hard), which is incorrect, bordering on insulting.

If Cuomo is picked as VP or runs for president someday, I'd denounce him far more firmly than Kaine or Biden.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

(some news articles are pushing the "Kaine is a Pope Francis Catholic" line hard)

'A Pope Francis Catholic'? Yeesh.

[BlueSwan]

Surely this is the least surprising VP pick of my lifetime (born in 1975). Such a boring pick. Does nothing to really help Clinton, I think. Doesn't hurt that much either, but certainly doesn't help convince Sanders voters. Would definitely have preferred Warren to generate some enthusiasm. It's not gonna make any difference for me, but I've been 100% for Clinton since the beginning. Hopefully the convention goes well.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Stellar pick. I'm giddy about this.

[RI]

(some news articles are pushing the "Kaine is a Pope Francis Catholic" line hard)

'A Pope Francis Catholic'? Yeesh.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/07/22/a-pope-francis-catholic-if-clinton-picks-tim-kaine-will-his-faith-matter/

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

(some news articles are pushing the "Kaine is a Pope Francis Catholic" line hard)

'A Pope Francis Catholic'? Yeesh.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/07/22/a-pope-francis-catholic-if-clinton-picks-tim-kaine-will-his-faith-matter/

Oh for...none of these people 'reflect the way Francis looks at the world'. I thought that was an open secret among Americans who care about Catholicism.

I could see Kaine maybe shoring up certain Hispanic constituencies, and definitely Audrey Assad Catholic Millennials (I know he's shored up at least one such person, my ex-girlfriend who I still talk to almost daily). That's about it.

[Fargobison]

So the RNC is hitting Kaine on his support for free trade and the Iraq war....



https://twitter.com/bfouhy/status/756644055803629569

These are strange times we are living in. The Democrat VP is not liberal enough for the RNC.

[IceSpear]

It's not strange at all. The RNC knows they can manipulate the Berniebros like silly putty. I still remember back in early 2015 when there were articles about how the right was baiting the left, particularly on the internet, into hating Hillary. I'm sure they've had more success than they ever could've dreamed of back then.

[Vega]

It's not strange at all. The RNC knows they can manipulate the Berniebros like silly putty. I still remember back in early 2015 when there were articles about how the right was baiting the left, particularly on the internet, into hating Hillary. I'm sure they've had more success than they ever could've dreamed of back then.

Yeah, this is a great point. It's like they're sheep being lead to slaughter.

[Tender Branson]

Good choice.

She badly needed someone like Kaine to drag her over the finish line.

With the help of Kaine, Sanders, Biden and Obama she might be able to do so, in a race that she should actually win by 10%.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Good choice.

She badly needed someone like Kaine to drag her over the finish line.

With the help of Kaine, Sanders, Biden and Obama she might be able to do so, in a race that she should actually win by 10%.

So it has nothing to do with her? Jesus you're blinkered.

[Pericles]

Gotta have serious doubts over Clinton's judgement here, not only in picking someone too close to the center but also putting an otherwise safe senate seat at risk.

No, it wasn't really safe. Virginia's a swing state. The Democrats won that seat by less than 1% in 2006 and about 6% in 2012. Given it will come up in a midterm year it will probably go GOP anyway, look at seats like Colorado and Iowa 2014. And a Democrat Governor gets to appoint a replacement, more progressive picks like Warren or Brown would be replaced by Republican Governors. That's not a reason to oppose this pick.

[Hammy]

Gotta have serious doubts over Clinton's judgement here, not only in picking someone too close to the center but also putting an otherwise safe senate seat at risk.

No, it wasn't really safe. Virginia's a swing state. The Democrats won that seat by less than 1% in 2006 and about 6% in 2012. Given it will come up in a midterm year it will probably go GOP anyway, look at seats like Colorado and Iowa 2014. And a Democrat Governor gets to appoint a replacement, more progressive picks like Warren or Brown would be replaced by Republican Governors. That's not a reason to oppose this pick.

My comment centered more around the likelihood that the seat was more easily dependable with Kaine (a moderate) as incumbent, rather than having to have a special election in a normally non-election year, where Dem turnout tends to be far lower percentage-wise than Republicans. The smartest choice in that aspect, to me, would've been somebody who isn't currently in the Senate to start with.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

While I'm dissapointed it's not Warren, Kaine's still better choice than Castro.

[DS0816]

Wall Street approves.

@ http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/07/22/clintons-vice-president-a-match-made-on-wall-street/

[Skye]

Good choice. And safe too.

[JRP1994]

Good choice.

She badly needed someone like Kaine to drag her over the finish line.

With the help of Kaine, Sanders, Biden and Obama she might be able to do so, in a race that she should actually win by 10%.

So it has nothing to do with her? Jesus you're blinkered.

No it doesn't. Hillary's blown a 10 point lead in a matter of 4 months.

[Maxwell]

Good choice.

She badly needed someone like Kaine to drag her over the finish line.

With the help of Kaine, Sanders, Biden and Obama she might be able to do so, in a race that she should actually win by 10%.

So it has nothing to do with her? Jesus you're blinkered.

No it doesn't. Hillary's blown a 10 point lead in a matter of 4 months.

Gaps like that close when the opponent wins their respective nomination.

[DrScholl]

Clinton is going to win big and no one should be surprised in November. There is no way Trump is going to win when he's stuck in the low 40s constantly.

[7,052,770]

(some news articles are pushing the "Kaine is a Pope Francis Catholic" line hard)

'A Pope Francis Catholic'? Yeesh.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/07/22/a-pope-francis-catholic-if-clinton-picks-tim-kaine-will-his-faith-matter/

Love it. I'll start referring to myself as that too when convenient.

At least Kaine goes to mass, unlike Pence and Rubio, who still claim to be Catholic when it helps them but go to evangelical Protestant services instead.