Democratic National Convention **live commentary thread**

[ag]

Yikes, Sanders delegates boo when Sanders himself says "We have got to defeat Donald Trump and we have got to elect Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine."

He needs to get real with them. Take off the kiddie gloves and tell them not to be children. He needs to get personal and emotional and explain why it is so important to him why Donald Trump can't be elected.

This is a clusterf-ck. I totally overestimated the sanity of his supporters, which I didn't think was possible. If Hillary loses the general, it's at least partly on Bernie. He helped create this mess.

If Hillary Clinton loses it will be Hillary Clinton's fault. She could have offered an olive branch long ago.

She has offered not an olive brunch, but a whole olive grove. These people cannot be reconciled, because in reality they are Trump Republicans.

[ag]

We saw NAFTA rammed down our throat.... Subsequently, the same company shut down virtually all manufacturing lines and relocated them to Ireland, Puerto Rico, and Singapore,

NAFTA, in case you are unaware of it, is an agreement involving US, Canada and Mexico - neither Ireland, nor Singapore have anything to do with it.  Admittedly, Puerto Rico does: as part of the US. So, unless your premise is somehow that the company moved manufacturing to Puerto Rico because it is easier to sell from there to Canada and Mexico, I really have hard time seeing what is it that you are claiming.

The fact is that NAFTA or no NAFTA, much of manufacturing would have left the US. That would have been the case even in the absence of ANY free trade agreements - in that case much more of US manufacturing would have, probably, gone to China (in fact, there are many reasons to believe that even much of what stayed in the US would have gone to China - but that is a separate matter). Of course, US could have avoide this by actually increasing protectionist barriers as compared to what they have been previously. That would have had an admirable effect of a substantially smaller US economy - the opposite of prosperity in which all of Americans would have shared.

I mean, for god´s sake. You have been borrowing like crazy for decades, with hardly a trace of either inflationary pressures or interest rate increases. Without trade this would have been impossible. Remember that 2008 recession? All those dreams of higher "tradeless" wages: the moment those wages would have started appearing, Fed would have had to jack up interest rates to make sure they (and employment) go down. And it would have been doing it repeatedly, always, as a matter of policy. A recession like the one in 2008 would have seen no monetary or fiscal expansion as a policy response - either would have been impossible. Want to make sure that your grandchildren dream of your era´s living standards (and curse you for taking them forever out of their reach)? Block trade.

[ag]

Speak English we are in America. The average person doesn't speak Spanish

Are you literally a meme?

No

Then you're just ignorant?

I guess supporting assimilation and speaking English in an English speaking country is now ignorant. Sad

As a proud member of the large Anglo-Mexican community (and a volunteer enforcer of the "mostly English" policy at the office lunch table in Mexico City) I think I can answer you: yes, it is ignorant and stupid.

[ag]

I hope i don't jinx it but today has really turned around. We owe the Sanders campaign, along with the great speakers, a great deal. Lets hope the rest of the night and the coming week continues to keep the pace.

If this goes on controlled, Sanders deserves high praise.

[ag]

You do have equal pay for equal work.  Just go work those construction jobs and manual labor.  Hell, even the women in my dept get paid more than the men. 

Strawmen and anecdotal evidence FTW!

Seriously, women choose different fields than men. And where they do choose the same fields, they are paid the same or more.  If women were paid less, why not hire all women?  Wage gap is nonsense.

There are studies that show that you are simply wrong on facts.

[ag]

The Bernie thugs chanting "War hawk!" I guess we know where jfern is tonight. Jill Stein, please take your hippies back to the Woodstock Convention.

They all should just stop pretending and just join the Republican party. With Trump in control, it is their true ideological and political home.

[ag]

The Bernie thugs chanting "War hawk!" I guess we know where jfern is tonight. Jill Stein, please take your hippies back to the Woodstock Convention.

They all should just stop pretending and just join the Republican party. With Trump in control, it is their true ideological and political home.

Give it up, you tool.  It's not happening.  The Democratic Party is not losing economic progressives to become a party of pure enlightenment and affluence, no matter how hard that gets you.

I am not talking about losing economic progressives. I am talking about losing economic reactionaries.

[ag]

LIE-A-WATHA is coming soon

Don't you have a KKK meeting to be at?

No, bud. The meeting is tomorrow.

/s

Specially for you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7CJovhhVq8

[ag]

Wow, Elizabeth Warren really would love to see a class war.  She is SO divisive.  Any Democrats wanna complain about how dark this speech is?

No, we want to END the class war that your party has started with trickle-down economics and crony capitalism.

Nice try.

Yeah, it'll end with upper class Americans heads being chopped off if Elizabeth Warren had her way!

Drawn and quartered. Would you mind scheduling an appointment for neck measurement? I will be passing by next week.

[ag]

So Bernie, what's the point of an education? To be a ward of the state, or to be SUCCESSFUL AND WEALTHY?

Neither. You would have known, if you had any.

[ag]

It feels like Sanders' party, not Clinton.

I mean, we're kinda going to be in control of the party in the next 10 or 20 years...

Yeah, and with that, skyrockets the national debt.

LOL, like it hasn't skyrocketed already. Drop the War on Terror and save a lot of money (and lives).

True, but you have to keep an eye on Islam.

Just watch our borders. Don't need a big wall, just vigilance and scrutiny of those coming into the country.

True, but the religion of Islam needs a reformation.

I has had a few dozen. Which version of it?

[ag]

Yes, Bernie, but Socialism is NEVER THE ANSWER.

Then you better stop driving on the roads, walking on the sidewalks and using public provided water, because that is all socialism.

Nonsense.

[ag]

So Bernie, what's the point of an education? To be a ward of the state, or to be SUCCESSFUL AND WEALTHY?

Neither. You would have known, if you had any.

Exactly. This question demonstrates a deep lack of understanding of what an education is and what it intends to do.

I didn't earn my education.

Corrected.

[ag]

SOCIALISM IS NOT THE ANSWER BERNIE! SOCIALISM IS NOT THE ANSWER

Okay, I guess you're against the fire department, the police, national parks, public libraries, etc.

Nonsense.

[ag]

Yes, Bernie, but Socialism is NEVER THE ANSWER.

Then you better stop driving on the roads, walking on the sidewalks and using public provided water, because that is all socialism.

Nonsense.

Not at all. Funding infrastructure through tax dollars is socialism

In that case there has not been a non-socialist government in history, nor is one possible. Ronald Reagan was a socialist, and so was Maggie Thatcher. The word has just lost every meaning it once held.

[ag]

I am ashamed of the 43% of the democratic party that literally voted for a movement that is the beginning of America becoming China or Russia.

Bernie's proposed policies = China = Russia?

China and Russia are vastly different, and both are different than what he proposed.

Both are communist nations, Socialism is merely a step on the way to communism.

SOCIALISM IS NOT THE ANSWER BERNIE! SOCIALISM IS NOT THE ANSWER

Okay, I guess you're against the fire department, the police, national parks, public libraries, etc.

That isn't typically considered to fall under the umbrella of Socialism. Free education and health care does.

Not even that, really.

[ag]

Yes, stop the TPP!!! That's the main issue I wish the Clinton wing of the party would concede on.

Clinton herself did, and Democratic Congressmen oppose it with huge majorities, so who really cares?

And, in any case, it will be ratified in December

[ag]

I am ashamed of the 43% of the democratic party that literally voted for a movement that is the beginning of America becoming China or Russia.

Bernie's proposed policies = China = Russia?

China and Russia are vastly different, and both are different than what he proposed.

Both are communist nations, Socialism is merely a step on the way to communism.

SOCIALISM IS NOT THE ANSWER BERNIE! SOCIALISM IS NOT THE ANSWER

Okay, I guess you're against the fire department, the police, national parks, public libraries, etc.

That isn't typically considered to fall under the umbrella of Socialism. Free education and health care does.

You can't pick and choose like that, economics isn't al a carte. If you pay tax dollars that are in turn used for services, that is socialism. When everyone pays a share, then it's socialism.

That is a definition you yourself invented. In the same spirit of individual definitional innovation I suggest another defintion: urinating is socialism. If you ever urinated in your life, you are a socialist.  You cannot pick and choose here: this is not a la carte.

BTW, what is a carte?

[ag]

Yes, stop the TPP!!! That's the main issue I wish the Clinton wing of the party would concede on.

Clinton herself did, and Democratic Congressmen oppose it with huge majorities, so who really cares?

And, in any case, it will be ratified in December

Yes, thankfully.  Kudos to Congressional Republicans.

And Presdient Obama

[ag]

I am ashamed of the 43% of the democratic party that literally voted for a movement that is the beginning of America becoming China or Russia.

Bernie's proposed policies = China = Russia?

China and Russia are vastly different, and both are different than what he proposed.

Both are communist nations, Socialism is merely a step on the way to communism.

SOCIALISM IS NOT THE ANSWER BERNIE! SOCIALISM IS NOT THE ANSWER

Okay, I guess you're against the fire department, the police, national parks, public libraries, etc.

That isn't typically considered to fall under the umbrella of Socialism. Free education and health care does.

You can't pick and choose like that, economics isn't al a carte. If you pay tax dollars that are in turn used for services, that is socialism. When everyone pays a share, then it's socialism.

That is a definition you yourself invented. In the same spirit of individual definitional innovation I suggest another defintion: urinating is socialism. If you ever urinated in your life, you are a socialist.  You cannot pick and choose here: this is not a la carte.

BTW, what is a carte?

That definition has become more and more prevalent in the vocabulary of the general population in recent years. He didn't invent it, even if it is wrong.

It excludes no form of government empirically known to mankind. Hence, it is meaningless. In fact, it is observationally equivalent to my "urinating" definition.

And, I am still waiting for the clarification on "a carte".

[ag]

If Hillary reneges on TPP, whether it's forced down our throats in the lame duck session or not, then her supporters really won't have an argument to keep Bernie supporters with her next election.  She's not doing it.

She will not have to. Obama will do everything

[ag]

If Hillary reneges on TPP, whether it's forced down our throats in the lame duck session or not, then her supporters really won't have an argument to keep Bernie supporters with her next election.  She's not doing it.

She will not have to. Obama will do everything

Not in the rollout.

Once it is the law, it is the law You know, Tim Kaine has always been against the death penalty....

And, trust me, no actual American would ever directly observe the rollout

[ag]

I am ashamed of the 43% of the democratic party that literally voted for a movement that is the beginning of America becoming China or Russia.

Bernie's proposed policies = China = Russia?

China and Russia are vastly different, and both are different than what he proposed.

Both are communist nations, Socialism is merely a step on the way to communism.

SOCIALISM IS NOT THE ANSWER BERNIE! SOCIALISM IS NOT THE ANSWER

Okay, I guess you're against the fire department, the police, national parks, public libraries, etc.

That isn't typically considered to fall under the umbrella of Socialism. Free education and health care does.

You can't pick and choose like that, economics isn't al a carte. If you pay tax dollars that are in turn used for services, that is socialism. When everyone pays a share, then it's socialism.

That is a definition you yourself invented. In the same spirit of individual definitional innovation I suggest another defintion: urinating is socialism. If you ever urinated in your life, you are a socialist.  You cannot pick and choose here: this is not a la carte.

BTW, what is a carte?

a carte = menu. From the menu.

Anyway, yes you can. You can socialize healthcare but not all business. Socialize education but not all schools. 

Watch you articles young man

[ag]

If Hillary reneges on TPP, whether it's forced down our throats in the lame duck session or not, then her supporters really won't have an argument to keep Bernie supporters with her next election.  She's not doing it.

She will not have to. Obama will do everything

Not in the rollout.

Once it is the law, it is the law You know, Tim Kaine has always been against the death penalty....

And, trust me, no actual American would ever directly observe the rollout

So maybe I'll be voting for Trump in November anyway.

You should - as should every other right wing Republican, like you.

[ag]

It excludes no form of government empirically known to mankind. Hence, it is meaningless. In fact, it is observationally equivalent to my "urinating" definition.

I agree with the above; I was just pointing out that Invisible Obama didn't make up that definition, and it's been floating around and gaining popularity for years.

Well, I am just objecting to calling it a "definition". It is not defining anything.