Things Clinton Democrats don't seem to get
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2016, 01:52:25 PM »

-- The Democrats are never going to win on racial issues alone because minorities are still a minority of the electorate.

-- The Democrats' base is the working class, and the vast majority of that is working class whites. That has never changed, nor should it ever change, given the positions of the parties.

-- Trump has made a strong red meat appeal to working class whites on immigration and trade. He positions himself as making a business proposition (which he certainly understands): their vote in exchange for promising to look out for their 'interests'.

-- The Democrats have traditionally made this exact same kind of appeal on economic issues, but are letting themselves get outflanked.

-- There are a lot of people out there who aren't thrilled about Trump, but all they're hearing from the Democrats is, "shame on you for being a racist". Human nature suggests this doesn't work.

-Not to mention the fact that Hillary is corrupt and incompetent. She wouldn't even had gotten her party's nomination if a FBI investigation and a nominating process wasn't  totally rigged in her favor.

Furthermore right now, if the GOP had picked anyone but Trump they probably would be winning in
November.

Ahahahaha no.

trump got where he did because even with his tone, and lack of finesse, and bigotry, he still had more to offer policy wise than any of the other clowns that ran, save Christie and Kasich.

Besides Christie and Kasich, the rest of 'em were paper tiger campaigners who in all likelihood would've been crushed easily by Hillary because, of course, regular dirt hurts them, whereas trump is only now starting to suffer.

trump and his consistent lack of care and ability to lie so naturally are why Hillary is in a narrow place right now.

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Virginiá
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« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2016, 02:03:30 PM »

You make good points Virginia, but I think you're overconfident in the party's ability to maintain a coalition for an entire GENERATION. Millennials will likely continue to be a Democratic voting bloc, but it is entirely unrealistic for the Democratic Party to maintain power for an entire generation simply by continuing to do what they have done for the past eight years.

The issue with the modern Republican party lies in its inability to adapt to changing demographics. I just would hate to see the Democratic Party get so overconfident in their current coalition that they fall into the same trap. The DNC is already in the mindset that as long as they continue to pander to the youth and to minorities, but I'm inclined to believe that the party is pretty close to milking the last few drops out of these groups.

I didn't mean to imply that I think Democrats will hold the White House for another 20 years straight (a generation by some standards), but I think minorities will continue to be a reliable voting bloc for that period. Why think otherwise? What has the GOP done to convince me otherwise? Minorities have consistently voted pro-Democratic since the 60s, only with Asians and Muslims being recent recruits to the coalition over the past 15 - 20 years. I'm not going to give the GOP credit until they actually earn it. So far their behavior (more like Trump's I guess) is actually pushing more away. They can't just fix that in one election cycle. Trump may have salted the earth for the GOP for many years with minorities.

As for the youth - I also don't think they will remain as Democratic, but the 18 - 29 bloc that comprises the youth is very racially diverse. This presents a unique problem for Republicans that they didn't have decades ago. If they can't make inroads with minorities, they will continue to perform poorly with that age group. This is something I've been wondering, because the more homogeneous youth vote of the past tended to oscillate between the two parties, depending on which party was rising in the country, but minorities now throw a question mark into that dynamic.

At any rate, as I said before, if Republicans can't fix their minority outreach problem, then they will indeed perform poorly on the national stage. I figure they have a decade to make progress on this issue before they get completely overwhelmed, but, you know, that's just my opinion.
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DINGO Joe
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« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2016, 02:19:57 PM »

-- The Democrats are never going to win on racial issues alone because minorities are still a minority of the electorate.

-- The Democrats' base is the working class, and the vast majority of that is working class whites. That has never changed, nor should it ever change, given the positions of the parties.

-- Trump has made a strong red meat appeal to working class whites on immigration and trade. He positions himself as making a business proposition (which he certainly understands): their vote in exchange for promising to look out for their 'interests'.

-- The Democrats have traditionally made this exact same kind of appeal on economic issues, but are letting themselves get outflanked.

-- There are a lot of people out there who aren't thrilled about Trump, but all they're hearing from the Democrats is, "shame on you for being a racist". Human nature suggests this doesn't work.

Sorry, I just can't get on board with blatant lying to the electorate, low tech manufacturing jobs aren't coming back, coal (especially Appalachia coal)  isn't coming back.  Retraining and a safety net is the best one can offer.  If the working white class can't comprehend or accept this, then I guess everyone should just prepare for the consequences.
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Ljube
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« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2016, 02:22:11 PM »

-- The Democrats are never going to win on racial issues alone because minorities are still a minority of the electorate.

-- The Democrats' base is the working class, and the vast majority of that is working class whites. That has never changed, nor should it ever change, given the positions of the parties.

-- Trump has made a strong red meat appeal to working class whites on immigration and trade. He positions himself as making a business proposition (which he certainly understands): their vote in exchange for promising to look out for their 'interests'.

-- The Democrats have traditionally made this exact same kind of appeal on economic issues, but are letting themselves get outflanked.

-- There are a lot of people out there who aren't thrilled about Trump, but all they're hearing from the Democrats is, "shame on you for being a racist". Human nature suggests this doesn't work.

Sorry, I just can't get on board with blatant lying to the electorate, low tech manufacturing jobs aren't coming back, coal (especially Appalachia coal)  isn't coming back.  Retraining and a safety net is the best one can offer.  If the working white class can't comprehend or accept this, then I guess everyone should just prepare for the consequences.

Including you.
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omegascarlet
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« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2016, 02:37:24 PM »

-- The Democrats are never going to win on racial issues alone because minorities are still a minority of the electorate.

-- The Democrats' base is the working class, and the vast majority of that is working class whites. That has never changed, nor should it ever change, given the positions of the parties.

-- Trump has made a strong red meat appeal to working class whites on immigration and trade. He positions himself as making a business proposition (which he certainly understands): their vote in exchange for promising to look out for their 'interests'.

-- The Democrats have traditionally made this exact same kind of appeal on economic issues, but are letting themselves get outflanked.

-- There are a lot of people out there who aren't thrilled about Trump, but all they're hearing from the Democrats is, "shame on you for being a racist". Human nature suggests this doesn't work.

Sorry, I just can't get on board with blatant lying to the electorate, low tech manufacturing jobs aren't coming back, coal (especially Appalachia coal)  isn't coming back.  Retraining and a safety net is the best one can offer.  If the working white class can't comprehend or accept this, then I guess everyone should just prepare for the consequences.

The democrats aren't offering retraining as far as I can tell. You have to actually campaign on an issue for it to be a plus for your side.
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DINGO Joe
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« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2016, 02:40:17 PM »

-- The Democrats are never going to win on racial issues alone because minorities are still a minority of the electorate.

-- The Democrats' base is the working class, and the vast majority of that is working class whites. That has never changed, nor should it ever change, given the positions of the parties.

-- Trump has made a strong red meat appeal to working class whites on immigration and trade. He positions himself as making a business proposition (which he certainly understands): their vote in exchange for promising to look out for their 'interests'.

-- The Democrats have traditionally made this exact same kind of appeal on economic issues, but are letting themselves get outflanked.

-- There are a lot of people out there who aren't thrilled about Trump, but all they're hearing from the Democrats is, "shame on you for being a racist". Human nature suggests this doesn't work.

Sorry, I just can't get on board with blatant lying to the electorate, low tech manufacturing jobs aren't coming back, coal (especially Appalachia coal)  isn't coming back.  Retraining and a safety net is the best one can offer.  If the working white class can't comprehend or accept this, then I guess everyone should just prepare for the consequences.

Including you.

Well, duh, dumb bass
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DINGO Joe
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« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2016, 02:43:12 PM »

-- The Democrats are never going to win on racial issues alone because minorities are still a minority of the electorate.

-- The Democrats' base is the working class, and the vast majority of that is working class whites. That has never changed, nor should it ever change, given the positions of the parties.

-- Trump has made a strong red meat appeal to working class whites on immigration and trade. He positions himself as making a business proposition (which he certainly understands): their vote in exchange for promising to look out for their 'interests'.

-- The Democrats have traditionally made this exact same kind of appeal on economic issues, but are letting themselves get outflanked.

-- There are a lot of people out there who aren't thrilled about Trump, but all they're hearing from the Democrats is, "shame on you for being a racist". Human nature suggests this doesn't work.

Sorry, I just can't get on board with blatant lying to the electorate, low tech manufacturing jobs aren't coming back, coal (especially Appalachia coal)  isn't coming back.  Retraining and a safety net is the best one can offer.  If the working white class can't comprehend or accept this, then I guess everyone should just prepare for the consequences.

The democrats aren't offering retraining as far as I can tell. You have to actually campaign on an issue for it to be a plus for your side.

Bullcrap, even back when Hillary made the speech about putting miner's out of work, she was talking about the need for retraining.  Retraining has been a constant Democratic effort for God knows how long
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« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2016, 02:44:47 PM »

-- The Democrats are never going to win on racial issues alone because minorities are still a minority of the electorate.

-- The Democrats' base is the working class, and the vast majority of that is working class whites. That has never changed, nor should it ever change, given the positions of the parties.

-- Trump has made a strong red meat appeal to working class whites on immigration and trade. He positions himself as making a business proposition (which he certainly understands): their vote in exchange for promising to look out for their 'interests'.

-- The Democrats have traditionally made this exact same kind of appeal on economic issues, but are letting themselves get outflanked.

-- There are a lot of people out there who aren't thrilled about Trump, but all they're hearing from the Democrats is, "shame on you for being a racist". Human nature suggests this doesn't work.

Sorry, I just can't get on board with blatant lying to the electorate, low tech manufacturing jobs aren't coming back, coal (especially Appalachia coal)  isn't coming back.  Retraining and a safety net is the best one can offer.  If the working white class can't comprehend or accept this, then I guess everyone should just prepare for the consequences.

The democrats aren't offering retraining as far as I can tell. You have to actually campaign on an issue for it to be a plus for your side.

Bullcrap, even back when Hillary made the speech about putting miner's out of work, she was talking about the need for retraining.  Retraining has been a constant Democratic effort for God knows how long
You know damn well that all the "retraining" programs are going to be earmarked to reliably Democratic areas. It'd be the same if a Republican proposed the program. West Virginia coal miners aren't gonna anything more than some lipservice under a Clinton presidency.
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ProudModerate2
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« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2016, 02:45:22 PM »

-- The Democrats are never going to win on racial issues alone because minorities are still a minority of the electorate.

Women are usually also classified as a "minority" group.
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« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2016, 02:49:50 PM »

-- The Democrats are never going to win on racial issues alone because minorities are still a minority of the electorate.

Women are usually also classified as a "minority" group.
Ugh, there are more women then men. That doesn't make any sense.
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DINGO Joe
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« Reply #35 on: July 25, 2016, 02:57:24 PM »

-- The Democrats are never going to win on racial issues alone because minorities are still a minority of the electorate.

-- The Democrats' base is the working class, and the vast majority of that is working class whites. That has never changed, nor should it ever change, given the positions of the parties.

-- Trump has made a strong red meat appeal to working class whites on immigration and trade. He positions himself as making a business proposition (which he certainly understands): their vote in exchange for promising to look out for their 'interests'.

-- The Democrats have traditionally made this exact same kind of appeal on economic issues, but are letting themselves get outflanked.

-- There are a lot of people out there who aren't thrilled about Trump, but all they're hearing from the Democrats is, "shame on you for being a racist". Human nature suggests this doesn't work.

Sorry, I just can't get on board with blatant lying to the electorate, low tech manufacturing jobs aren't coming back, coal (especially Appalachia coal)  isn't coming back.  Retraining and a safety net is the best one can offer.  If the working white class can't comprehend or accept this, then I guess everyone should just prepare for the consequences.

The democrats aren't offering retraining as far as I can tell. You have to actually campaign on an issue for it to be a plus for your side.

Bullcrap, even back when Hillary made the speech about putting miner's out of work, she was talking about the need for retraining.  Retraining has been a constant Democratic effort for God knows how long
You know damn well that all the "retraining" programs are going to be earmarked to reliably Democratic areas. It'd be the same if a Republican proposed the program. West Virginia coal miners aren't gonna anything more than some lipservice under a Clinton presidency.

The money has been put out there by Obama the last two years, but most of it hasn't made it through Congress, mainly thanks to McConell (some has via coal reclamation funds).  Hilary rolled out a 5 Billion detailed program after the blowback from miners out of work speech.  Trump has nothing, because he's gonna make coal great again so why retrain?  And I guess the dumbs left in WV after watching people leave for seven decades (including your family) actually believe it.
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« Reply #36 on: July 25, 2016, 03:04:27 PM »

-- The Democrats are never going to win on racial issues alone because minorities are still a minority of the electorate.

-- The Democrats' base is the working class, and the vast majority of that is working class whites. That has never changed, nor should it ever change, given the positions of the parties.

-- Trump has made a strong red meat appeal to working class whites on immigration and trade. He positions himself as making a business proposition (which he certainly understands): their vote in exchange for promising to look out for their 'interests'.

-- The Democrats have traditionally made this exact same kind of appeal on economic issues, but are letting themselves get outflanked.

-- There are a lot of people out there who aren't thrilled about Trump, but all they're hearing from the Democrats is, "shame on you for being a racist". Human nature suggests this doesn't work.

Sorry, I just can't get on board with blatant lying to the electorate, low tech manufacturing jobs aren't coming back, coal (especially Appalachia coal)  isn't coming back.  Retraining and a safety net is the best one can offer.  If the working white class can't comprehend or accept this, then I guess everyone should just prepare for the consequences.

The democrats aren't offering retraining as far as I can tell. You have to actually campaign on an issue for it to be a plus for your side.

Bullcrap, even back when Hillary made the speech about putting miner's out of work, she was talking about the need for retraining.  Retraining has been a constant Democratic effort for God knows how long
You know damn well that all the "retraining" programs are going to be earmarked to reliably Democratic areas. It'd be the same if a Republican proposed the program. West Virginia coal miners aren't gonna anything more than some lipservice under a Clinton presidency.

The money has been put out there by Obama the last two years, but most of it hasn't made it through Congress, mainly thanks to McConell (some has via coal reclamation funds).  Hilary rolled out a 5 Billion detailed program after the blowback from miners out of work speech.  Trump has nothing, because he's gonna make coal great again so why retrain?  And I guess the dumbs left in WV after watching people leave for seven decades (including your family) actually believe it.
See, why should West Virginians think Hillary cares for them when her supporters like you call them "dumbs." Hillary doesn't care for WV. Trump doesn't much care either, but he'll at least protect their industry. Bernie does care, and I think Bernie would have actually passed a job retraining program that helps all Americans, not just his favorite Americans. Which is why WV, which went from being a Hillary stronghold to being a Bernie one?

Americans see through Hillary's persona. That is why a non-marginal amount of Democrats backed Bernie and why Trump is ahead (seriously, we nominated Donald freaking Trump and he's leading!) in the polls.

 
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DINGO Joe
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« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2016, 12:15:49 AM »

-- The Democrats are never going to win on racial issues alone because minorities are still a minority of the electorate.

-- The Democrats' base is the working class, and the vast majority of that is working class whites. That has never changed, nor should it ever change, given the positions of the parties.

-- Trump has made a strong red meat appeal to working class whites on immigration and trade. He positions himself as making a business proposition (which he certainly understands): their vote in exchange for promising to look out for their 'interests'.

-- The Democrats have traditionally made this exact same kind of appeal on economic issues, but are letting themselves get outflanked.

-- There are a lot of people out there who aren't thrilled about Trump, but all they're hearing from the Democrats is, "shame on you for being a racist". Human nature suggests this doesn't work.

Sorry, I just can't get on board with blatant lying to the electorate, low tech manufacturing jobs aren't coming back, coal (especially Appalachia coal)  isn't coming back.  Retraining and a safety net is the best one can offer.  If the working white class can't comprehend or accept this, then I guess everyone should just prepare for the consequences.

The democrats aren't offering retraining as far as I can tell. You have to actually campaign on an issue for it to be a plus for your side.

Bullcrap, even back when Hillary made the speech about putting miner's out of work, she was talking about the need for retraining.  Retraining has been a constant Democratic effort for God knows how long
You know damn well that all the "retraining" programs are going to be earmarked to reliably Democratic areas. It'd be the same if a Republican proposed the program. West Virginia coal miners aren't gonna anything more than some lipservice under a Clinton presidency.

The money has been put out there by Obama the last two years, but most of it hasn't made it through Congress, mainly thanks to McConell (some has via coal reclamation funds).  Hilary rolled out a 5 Billion detailed program after the blowback from miners out of work speech.  Trump has nothing, because he's gonna make coal great again so why retrain?  And I guess the dumbs left in WV after watching people leave for seven decades (including your family) actually believe it.
See, why should West Virginians think Hillary cares for them when her supporters like you call them "dumbs." Hillary doesn't care for WV. Trump doesn't much care either, but he'll at least protect their industry. Bernie does care, and I think Bernie would have actually passed a job retraining program that helps all Americans, not just his favorite Americans. Which is why WV, which went from being a Hillary stronghold to being a Bernie one?

Americans see through Hillary's persona. That is why a non-marginal amount of Democrats backed Bernie and why Trump is ahead (seriously, we nominated Donald freaking Trump and he's leading!) in the polls.

 

Trump ain't gonna do jacksquat for coal.  What's he gonna do to natural gas to save coal, especially Appalachian coal?  And the miner's do bear responsibility.  What do they think the Marcellus and Utica are?  Are they really that ignorant or oblivious. 
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« Reply #38 on: July 26, 2016, 04:34:09 AM »

"No individual too powerful to jail" (except me) - Hillary
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Intell
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« Reply #39 on: July 26, 2016, 08:13:38 AM »

I love how the democrats are making thatcherite/Reagan-like arguments.

It's lovely how privileged liberal whites think they know everything.
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« Reply #40 on: July 26, 2016, 09:53:38 AM »

-- The Democrats are never going to win on racial issues alone because minorities are still a minority of the electorate.

-- The Democrats' base is the working class, and the vast majority of that is working class whites. That has never changed, nor should it ever change, given the positions of the parties.

-- Trump has made a strong red meat appeal to working class whites on immigration and trade. He positions himself as making a business proposition (which he certainly understands): their vote in exchange for promising to look out for their 'interests'.

-- The Democrats have traditionally made this exact same kind of appeal on economic issues, but are letting themselves get outflanked.

-- There are a lot of people out there who aren't thrilled about Trump, but all they're hearing from the Democrats is, "shame on you for being a racist". Human nature suggests this doesn't work.
1. Of course not. Where did you get there idea that Democrats are a minority issues party?
2. Yes, their base is working class and middle class, though working class whites have essentially left the party in droves since 1980 and more recently 2000.
3. The usual suspects in the working class white demographic would probably vote Republican anyway, even without a specific appeal.
4. The Democratic Party is a fundamentally different party from the 1960's-1980's.
5. So, you have a focus group you've been studying or is all of this just a feeling?
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Pandaguineapig
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« Reply #41 on: July 26, 2016, 10:00:59 AM »

With the growing influence of BLM and socialists within the party as well as the we are the future many democrats seem to have, I can totally see a British labour party type implosion of the democrats if Hillary loses
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SUSAN CRUSHBONE
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« Reply #42 on: July 26, 2016, 10:09:18 AM »

-- The Democrats' base is the working class, and the vast majority of that is working class whites.
errrrr…
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Ljube
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« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2016, 11:45:08 AM »

With the growing influence of BLM and socialists within the party as well as the we are the future many democrats seem to have, I can totally see a British labour party type implosion of the democrats if Hillary loses

It's the other way around. This implosion is already happening and the outcome will be that Hillary loses.
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Beefalow and the Consumer
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« Reply #44 on: July 26, 2016, 11:51:42 AM »

-- The Democrats are never going to win on racial issues alone because minorities are still a minority of the electorate.

-- The Democrats' base is the working class, and the vast majority of that is working class whites. That has never changed, nor should it ever change, given the positions of the parties.

-- Trump has made a strong red meat appeal to working class whites on immigration and trade. He positions himself as making a business proposition (which he certainly understands): their vote in exchange for promising to look out for their 'interests'.

-- The Democrats have traditionally made this exact same kind of appeal on economic issues, but are letting themselves get outflanked.

-- There are a lot of people out there who aren't thrilled about Trump, but all they're hearing from the Democrats is, "shame on you for being a racist". Human nature suggests this doesn't work.

Beet, I love you, you and I have been on Atlas since the start, but this is getting out of hand. 

The only reason the Democrats look like a "minority issues party" is because the Republicans have turned into the party of seething white male outrage.  Trump's economic message is not the same as the Democrats.  "We're losing to the world, I'll get you what you deserve and has been stolen by [hated group]," is not the message the Democrats want to run with.  Trump may have stolen the "rigged economy" narrative from Bernie, but the huge difference is who is doing the rigging.  Trump isn't going to fool anyone apart from the Bros who were never going to vote for Hillary anyway.
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« Reply #45 on: July 26, 2016, 11:55:57 AM »

Beet, I agree with many of your points about Democratic failures to communicate effectively with the white working class in particular. However, our country is changing and we simply cannot abide by the demands of so many of Trump's supporters. The direction the party is moving in is necessary and right IMO.

Let's see how the communication problem looks after this week's convention.
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« Reply #46 on: July 26, 2016, 11:58:44 AM »

Beet, I agree with many of your points about Democratic failures to communicate effectively with the white working class in particular. However, our country is changing and we simply cannot abide by the demands of so many of Trump's supporters. The direction the party is moving in is necessary and right IMO.

Let's see how the communication problem looks after this week's convention.
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RI
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« Reply #47 on: July 26, 2016, 12:06:39 PM »

The only reason the Democrats look like a "minority issues party" is because the Republicans have turned into the party of seething white male outrage.

Yes, it's totally the GOP's fault that the Dems are running into the arms of BLM, SJW insanity, amnesty, increased Islamic immigration, and radical Islamic apologism. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #48 on: July 26, 2016, 12:22:49 PM »

The only reason the Democrats look like a "minority issues party" is because the Republicans have turned into the party of seething white male outrage.

Yes, it's totally the GOP's fault that the Dems are running into the arms of BLM, SJW insanity, amnesty, increased Islamic immigration, and radical Islamic apologism. Roll Eyes

The first isn't happening. The second isn't happening (as Hillary and not Bernie won), the third 'amnesty', well I thought compassion and amnesty; ensuring that people can breathe the air in the town they live in without fearing someone will find them, categorise them and take them away was one of those stubborn traits I had hanging over from my 25 years as a Catholic (but you probably know more about this than me; must have missed it the multiple choice quiz you get before someone shoves a wafer in your mouth), the fourth there is no statistical evidence for, certainly not to the US as either a raw number or a % of immigration to the USA and the last is entirely contrary to I don't know, every single pronouncement made by the sitting President and the former Secretary of State who wants to be president.

Other than that i cant criticise the Roll Eyes. It's just an emoticon.
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« Reply #49 on: July 26, 2016, 12:26:12 PM »

Other than that i cant criticise the Roll Eyes. It's just an emoticon.

It's a terrible, two-timing emoticon that reeks of arrogance and self-righteousness. It's clearly aiding and abetting his posts.
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