So, did the Democrats fall into Trump's trap?
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  So, did the Democrats fall into Trump's trap?
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Author Topic: So, did the Democrats fall into Trump's trap?  (Read 2729 times)
I Will Not Be Wrong
outofbox6
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« on: July 27, 2016, 03:12:50 PM »

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/27/the-democrats-just-fell-for-trumps-russian-email-hack-bait-commentary.html

Hmm, perhaps it's for the best that Democrats try to ignore Trump's outrageous comments?
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Ebsy
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« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2016, 03:13:16 PM »

No?
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OwlRhetoric
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« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2016, 03:14:25 PM »

Maybe.
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NeverAgain
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« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2016, 03:15:19 PM »

wut.
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Fusionmunster
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« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2016, 03:20:55 PM »

Not with Obama speaking tonight.
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Atlas Has Shrugged
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« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2016, 03:21:17 PM »

Undecided. I sometimes wonder that Trump fires out controversial comment after controversial comment as a means to desensitize the electorate to him while also indulging the hyper active campaign journalists in the latest scandal to fuel their fetish for a horse race.
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Wells
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« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2016, 03:23:49 PM »

No. Trump's comments are meant to decrease, not increase, his poll numbers.
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Storebought
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« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2016, 03:26:46 PM »
« Edited: July 27, 2016, 03:33:10 PM by Storebought »

No. Trump's comments are meant to decrease, not increase, his poll numbers.

I disagree. Trump wants to derail the DNC.

If he wanted to decrease his poll numbers permanently, he'd release his post 9/11 tax returns.
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Mehmentum
Icefire9
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« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2016, 03:30:59 PM »

Lol, it seems like every time Trump makes an idiotic blunder, there's some hot take that he's actually playing 4 dimensional chess.  He isn't, he's just an idiot.
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Atlas Has Shrugged
ChairmanSanchez
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« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2016, 03:36:58 PM »

Lol, it seems like every time Trump makes an idiotic blunder, there's some hot take that he's actually playing 4 dimensional chess.  He isn't, he's just an idiot.
Ok. Go watch Rachel Maddow fawn over Bill Clinton and the "triangulation" strategy. This is basically the same thing in principle. It's basic politics, 101.
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Averroës Nix
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« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2016, 03:41:38 PM »

It wasn't a "trap," but, yes, it has become a major opportunity for the Trump campaign to discredit his critics.

It has also been a telling showcase of epistemic closure among Clinton supporters. A lot of relatively savvy people have fallen into repeating accusations of Russian manipulation of the Trump campaign, or even outright collusion, on the basis of extremely thin evidence. (In some cases around here, we have seen lines that originated as outright trolling somehow evolve into serious claims.)

None of this is at all convincing to anyone who isn't already inclined to view Trump as a malevolent force that must be stopped. The corollary to this is that it is tempting to take claims of Kremlin involvement as fact, uncritically, if you do hold that view. But that does not make it true, and it certainly does not make for a sound campaign strategy. Or, for that matter, and for those of us who care about these things, an honest one.
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Gass3268
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« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2016, 03:43:07 PM »

This article is moronic.
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Mehmentum
Icefire9
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« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2016, 03:52:24 PM »

Lol, it seems like every time Trump makes an idiotic blunder, there's some hot take that he's actually playing 4 dimensional chess.  He isn't, he's just an idiot.
Ok. Go watch Rachel Maddow fawn over Bill Clinton and the "triangulation" strategy. This is basically the same thing in principle. It's basic politics, 101.
It really isn't.  This has nothing in common with triangulation.
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DrScholl
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« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2016, 03:53:09 PM »

What trap? What he said was clear and is the sentiment of most Republicans. Republicans will collude with just about anybody to harm Clinton, because they hate her that much.
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Atlas Has Shrugged
ChairmanSanchez
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« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2016, 03:56:05 PM »

Lol, it seems like every time Trump makes an idiotic blunder, there's some hot take that he's actually playing 4 dimensional chess.  He isn't, he's just an idiot.
Ok. Go watch Rachel Maddow fawn over Bill Clinton and the "triangulation" strategy. This is basically the same thing in principle. It's basic politics, 101.
It really isn't.  This has nothing in common with triangulation.
Not literally, no. It does involve the strategic use of words to intentionally make big news out of nothing, something that causes panic today but means nothing tomorrow. Something meant to rattle the easily rattled.

You can deny all you want, but Trump is playing a hard game and you know it. If Trump was a Bob Katterish style populist Democrat, you'd be singing his praises. Not everyone on the other side is just an idiot screaming at traffic.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2016, 03:56:15 PM »

No. This could be for the FBI to investigate, ideally (and if at all) after the election is over).
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Wiz in Wis
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« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2016, 04:06:51 PM »

By this standard, he'd have been better off just shooting a reporter, as this article just boils down to "Trumps overshadowing the DNC, and that hurts Democrats"
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Blue3
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« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2016, 04:11:43 PM »

If this is Trump's idea of a trap, he needs to go back to con-man school.
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Mehmentum
Icefire9
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« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2016, 04:14:17 PM »
« Edited: July 27, 2016, 04:20:06 PM by Mehmentum »

Lol, it seems like every time Trump makes an idiotic blunder, there's some hot take that he's actually playing 4 dimensional chess.  He isn't, he's just an idiot.
Ok. Go watch Rachel Maddow fawn over Bill Clinton and the "triangulation" strategy. This is basically the same thing in principle. It's basic politics, 101.
It really isn't.  This has nothing in common with triangulation.
Not literally, no. It does involve the strategic use of words to intentionally make big news out of nothing
That's not triangulation and I'm kind of baffled at how you're making this link.  Triangulation involves adopting certain aspects of your opponents platform, in an attempt to outflank them.  

While you could make the argument that Trump is attempting to do this with his minimum wage comments (even if the attempt was completely botched by his simultaneously taking on 3 positions at once),  unless you think that Clinton was somehow advocating for Russia to hack her opponents, these two things have nothing more in common than any other two random events in politics.

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I made this point in another thread, but this comment is particularly dangerous for Trump precisely because you're completely wrong.  This isn't a stand alone comment, something random that won't be relevant in the future.  In fact, this feeds directly into a narrative that has been slowly building for weeks.

-Trump expresses admiration for Putin.
-Trump's only change to the GOP platform involves not disputing Russian claims in the Ukraine.
-The wikileaks email dump has suspicious ties to Russian intelligence, and has suspiciously convenient timing for the Trump campaign.
-Trump's comments about NATO.

Alone, you'd be right, all of these events would fade as the media moves on.  Unfortunately for Trump this isn't a standalone comment, this is the latest in a series of blunders that all build into each other and feed into this narrative.
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Oakvale
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« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2016, 04:16:42 PM »

It's entirely possible to think this will end up backfiring (I don't, personally, but eh) without having to resort to CHESSMASTER TRUMP DOES IT AGAIN nonsense.
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Atlas Has Shrugged
ChairmanSanchez
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« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2016, 04:27:23 PM »

Lol, it seems like every time Trump makes an idiotic blunder, there's some hot take that he's actually playing 4 dimensional chess.  He isn't, he's just an idiot.
Ok. Go watch Rachel Maddow fawn over Bill Clinton and the "triangulation" strategy. This is basically the same thing in principle. It's basic politics, 101.
It really isn't.  This has nothing in common with triangulation.
Not literally, no. It does involve the strategic use of words to intentionally make big news out of nothing
That's not triangulation and I'm kind of baffled at how you're making this link.  Triangulation involves adopting certain aspects of your opponents platform, in an attempt to outflank them. 

While you could make the argument that Trump is attempting to do this with his minimum wage comments (even if the attempt was completely botched by his simultaneously taking on 3 positions at once),  unless you think that Clinton was somehow advocating for Russia to hack her opponents, these two things have nothing more in common than any other two random events in politics.

Quote
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I made this point in another thread, but this comment is particularly dangerous for Trump precisely because you're completely wrong.  This isn't a stand alone comment, something random that won't be relevant in the future.  In fact, this feeds directly into a narrative that has been slowly building for weeks.

-Trump expresses admiration for Putin.
-Trump's only change to the GOP platform involves not disputing Russian claims in the Ukraine.
-The wikileaks email dump has suspicious ties to Russian intelligence, and has suspiciously convenient timing for the Trump campaign.
-Trump's comments about NATO.

Alone, you'd be right, all of these events would fade as the media moves on.  Unfortunately for Trump this isn't a standalone comment, this is the latest in a series of blunders that all build into each other and feed into this narrative.
I'm not saying this is triangulation. That is not the point I am expressing. What I mean is that this is the same underlying theory-you say something that has no meaning and allow others to fill that gap. That is nothing new in politics, and Trump is playing this card. This is cut from the same cloth as that theory.

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Ok. I admire Bob Dylan but I don't think I'm ever gonna write a song with him.

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Changing of the guards. The Crimea isn't changing hands and there is no reason to handicap our relationship with them over a crisis that the EU frankly created when they tried to box Russia out of their legitimate sphere of influence.

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Yeah, and so were the "renovations" in the south tower weeks before 9/11 right? Roll Eyes

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What about them? They don't sound any different from Ron Paul or Pat Buchanan? This isn't new?
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Oakvale
oakvale
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« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2016, 04:30:05 PM »

The Republicans didn't nominate Pat Buchanan for President until 2016, see.
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Virginiá
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« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2016, 04:31:59 PM »

These articles always make me laugh. Yeah, Trump is so smart! All these dumb/damaging statements he makes day-in, day-out, nope, not gaffes, it's all 4d, wait no, 12d chess!

He's not executing any brilliant strategy. He's literally just a moron in regards to public relations/politics/government, with a massive ego and no self control. It's that simple.
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Crumpets
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« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2016, 04:34:48 PM »

I think if there's a game metaphor to be made here, it's that Clinton is playing Go and Trump is flipping the board saying "This is stupid! I win!" Meanwhile Americans are watching and thinking "Yeah, Go is weird, Trump's right."
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Yank2133
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« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2016, 04:35:41 PM »
« Edited: July 27, 2016, 04:37:32 PM by Yank2133 »

Lol, it seems like every time Trump makes an idiotic blunder, there's some hot take that he's actually playing 4 dimensional chess.  He isn't, he's just an idiot.

This.

It every time he has opened his mouth and said something stupid, it is has ended up to hurt him(remember when he talked about that judge?). As for taking away attention from the DNC, please....do you know who we have on tonight?
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