Trump considers recognizing annexion of crimea

[cMac36]

This was my position even when I was against Trump, so good. Return Crimea and the Donbass to Russia where they belong.

What does belong mean?  I mean as I said it's entirely possible Russia would win a fair Crimean independence referendum.  But we won't see one so we really don't know.  As of now Russia has taken it by force & held fake referendum and that's that.  I guess the fact there hasn't been mass civil unrest means it's not the most horrible situation.  

ut Why do they belong with one or the other?  Semms like strange word

[2952-0-0]

This whole Ukraine thing is another festering dumpster fire for Trump that is about to turn into a raging inferno.

I didn't think any of his incendiary remarks to date would hurt him, because they all contributed to his tough guy image. But his bromance with Putin could very well hurt him, because it questions his patriotism.

The Clinton campaign need to run "Will Donald sell us out in a deal with Putin?" attack ads, now. Especially in swing states with plenty of military families.

EDIT: It's also hilarious that the Russian government demands that Hillary stop using this attack against Trump. It's not as if Vladimir Putin and the United Russia party used anti-US sentiment during their election campaigns.

[cMac36]

Also I'm not sure if going head on on this stuff if right tactic for Clinton campaign.  More insinutate that Trump is mysteriously in the thrall of Putin.  Putin as a person is disliked in US but The actual foreign policy debates aren't ones dems would want to have.  IE would you Sec Clinton actually send US troops if Putin invaded Estonia?? "Putin is good at killing terrorists we need him in Syria! Have someone else do fighting for once" is also good Trump comeback line for war weary population.

[Bojack Horseman]

So why don't we saw off Michigan and give it to the Canadians while we're at it? If we're going to allow Putin to steal territory that doesn't belong to Russia, where does it end?

[Nyvin]

There's Russians in eastern Estonia....are we going to give that to Russia as well?     

Smart foreign policy Trump....this is a real winner, go with it!

[OwlRhetoric]

So why don't we saw off Michigan and give it to the Canadians while we're at it? If we're going to allow Putin to steal territory that doesn't belong to Russia, where does it end?

Canada doesn't have thousands of nuclear weapons and wouldn't do it to another nuclear state. Huge difference.

I don't care if people don't like it. Nuclear powers are able to take privileges other countries can't, and that's always going to be the case unless nukes are ever nullified. If the US decides to annex Cancun tomorrow, the rest of the world can't do boo about it except shout. Same with China deciding they want a nice piece of Nepal. And of course both these scenarios have less of a claim than Russia did to Crimea.

It only becomes a serious problem for the world when one nuclear state butts heads with another.

[2952-0-0]

It only becomes a serious problem for the world when one nuclear state butts heads with another.

But that's the problem. If Putin got away with taking a piece of Ukraine on the grounds "there are ethnic Russians", will he be tempted to take a piece of Latvia where "there are ethnic Russians"? He only needs to successfully subvert one NATO state and NATO itself will collapse. In fact, *all* the alliances involving the US will be in serious doubt.

[cMac36]

So why don't we saw off Michigan and give it to the Canadians while we're at it? If we're going to allow Putin to steal territory that doesn't belong to Russia, where does it end?

Is this serious?  Russian controlled entirety of Eastern europe (exception of Yugoslavia which neither controlled then destroyed by West exploiting ethnic differences) including part of Germany just 25 years ago.  The West sent explicit offensive message with expanding NATO into E. Europe .

Personally I don't care but to compare to Michigan is ridiculous.

[Fargobison]

It was interesting that Manafort got caught lying about the Trump campaign softening the RNC platform on Ukraine. He said on Meet the Press they had nothing to do with it and now it appears they had everything to do with it. In fact it was the only part of the platform they cared about at all.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-ukraine-putin_us_579e5a56e4b0693164c19e09

[Intell]

The people of Crimea want to be in Russia, they should be allowed to. It has been Russian for a huge part of it's time, and wanted to continue to be in socialist republic, even after the dissolution of the soviet union. This is a question of self-determination.

[IceSpear]

#ImWithVlad

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

This man would completely destroy our diplomatic standing and credibility in the world.  Future historians will look back on how 50,000 votes in Ohio were the difference between the first woman President and utter disaster, and shake their heads in wonder.

If Clinton is winning in Ohio, she's winning PA/VA/MI/WI/CO/NV/NH/probably FL/IA as well. Ohio would be icing on the cake, not the deciding state. In fact, I'd say Ohio is the most likely Obama state to vote Trump. Pennsylvania will be the deciding state in this election.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Realistically someone will have to do it sooner or later. There is no plausible scenario where Ukraine is ever getting it back, short of a total Russian collapse like the USSR. Obama wisely opened things up with Cuba again, despite our disagreements. Hopefully trying to normalize with Russia doesn't take fifty years of stubbornness detached from reality.

[ProudModerate2]

The main issue here is being missed.
The issue is that trump is so ignorant to world events, that he did not know that Russia was already in Ukraine.
And not just in Crimea (which was Ukraine territory, before Russia annexed it.)
Russia had (and probably continues to have) some major hardware in eastern areas of Ukraine. The Pentagon at the time released a handful of spy satellite images proving this with 100% accuracy (images were shown on all major media outlets). And don't forget .... it was a Russian anti-air (missile) battery that took down that commercial airline, killing everyone on board. Horrible !!
The Russians have also sent soldiers to mix-in and disguise themselves as Rebels in the continued fighting in eastern Ukraine. This has been proven by stories of grieving families in Russia who are losing the sons in Ukraine, who supposedly were there "on vacation."
So how can trump be so brain-dead to not know all these facts.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Meh. If Russia wants to be imperialist, fine. I don't see why it's the U.S.'s business - they're across a YUGE ocean and have no plans to attack us. Recognize the annexation and move on.

[Ljube]

The people of Crimea want to be in Russia, they should be allowed to. It has been Russian for a huge part of it's time, and wanted to continue to be in socialist republic, even after the dissolution of the soviet union. This is a question of self-determination.

[7,052,770]

Remember when those pro-Russian separatists "accidentally" shot down that airplane and killed hundreds of people? Some reporter should ask Trump about it and see if he'll say it was Ukraine's fault.

[Sorenroy]

The people of Crimea want to be in Russia, they should be allowed to. It has been Russian for a huge part of it's time, and wanted to continue to be in socialist republic, even after the dissolution of the soviet union. This is a question of self-determination.

After reading some articles, it does seem that polling shows a preference towards Russia. However, if this is a question of self-determination, as you say it is, then maybe, just maybe, Russia should have pushed for a vote before they forcibly annexed the area.

[Ljube]

The people of Crimea want to be in Russia, they should be allowed to. It has been Russian for a huge part of it's time, and wanted to continue to be in socialist republic, even after the dissolution of the soviet union. This is a question of self-determination.

After reading some articles, it does seem that polling shows a preference towards Russia. However, if this is a question of self-determination, as you say it is, then maybe, just maybe, Russia should have pushed for a vote before they forcibly annexed the area.

Ukraine was never going to allow that vote.
Previous Ukrainian governments were not hostile to Russia and were not into openly discriminating their own citizens of Russian origin.

[Sorenroy]

The people of Crimea want to be in Russia, they should be allowed to. It has been Russian for a huge part of it's time, and wanted to continue to be in socialist republic, even after the dissolution of the soviet union. This is a question of self-determination.

After reading some articles, it does seem that polling shows a preference towards Russia. However, if this is a question of self-determination, as you say it is, then maybe, just maybe, Russia should have pushed for a vote before they forcibly annexed the area.

Ukraine was never going to allow that vote.
Previous Ukrainian governments were not hostile to Russia and were not into openly discriminating their own citizens of Russian origin.

1) So the fact that a country will not allow a vote is grounds for invasion? Last time I checked that wasn't a reason to violate the borders of a sovereign nation.

2) (for the bolded part) What? A simple link will do to clear up my confusion.

[Lyin' Steve]

Do not underestimate Israel's willingness to execute a first strike against another nuclear power if it feels its existence as a state is threatened.  Israel is willing to withstand a small-scale nuclear exchange if it means neutralizing an existential threat.  I guarantee you they have run simulations and scenarios calculating outcomes of such an exchange.

If that is the case, we'll see an Israeli strike in any case. And of course, the severe human consequences of such an attack would be on them and them alone. I think having a President who puts our interest over theirs would likely keep the Israelis on a tighter leash, not a looser one.

We'll see an Israeli strike if a nuclear Iran turns sufficiently belligerent, and they believe they can survive the outcome with "acceptable loss."  They don't mess around, and Likud is lead by lunatics.

The destabilization that Trump would engender through his bumbling through international relations like a bull in a china shop will make this scenario much more probable, not less.  Just one of the many gifts the US will bestow upon the world if Trump is elected.

God damn, can you imagine Trump trying to negotiate an Israeli-Palestinian cease fire like Clinton did?  Can you imagine him handling the Cuban Missile Crisis like JFK, or the Camp David Accords like Carter, or resolving the Cold War with diplomacy and grace like Bush?  These are not partisan issues, having Trump instead of Clinton at the table because he's "your guy" even if he's a worse person isn't enough to justify preferring him in these unique situations that are truly what the American presidency is all about.

[Californiadreaming]

Poor Tartars. They are going to be completely destroyed regardless.

Actually, I'm not so sure about that:

http://www.unz.com/akarlin/crimean-tatars-for-russia/

[Californiadreaming]

Good.

Yeah it is good when we ask a country to unilaterally disarm and Russia signs a promise saying that they will defend the territorial integrity of the country.  Once they hand over the nukes Russia invades.  Wonderful.  What's not to like.

We all know the next time this issue comes up you will be on here doing another one of your unhinged irresponsible rants denigrating whatever country that doesn't want to disarm and do what the US asks them to do.  Considering how worthless the Ukraine treaty was why would anyone in their right mind negotiate disarmament with the US again?

To be fair to Russia, though, Russia might have only recognized Ukraine's sovereignty over Crimea in the 1990s due to Russia's belief that it will eventually dominate all of Ukraine.

[Californiadreaming]

This was my position even when I was against Trump, so good. Return Crimea and the Donbass to Russia where they belong.

How about holding internationally monitored sovereignty referendums in both Crimea and the Donbass instead, though?

[Californiadreaming]

Well strictly speaking he may not be wrong.  But Russia would never allow a referendum with international observers which would be the only way to tell.

Well, at least not until Putin is out of power.