Special Investigative Committee on the Muslim Brotherhood
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 29, 2024, 04:22:59 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Government (Moderators: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee, Lumine)
  Special Investigative Committee on the Muslim Brotherhood
« previous next »
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: Special Investigative Committee on the Muslim Brotherhood  (Read 708 times)
Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,142


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: July 31, 2016, 10:38:43 PM »

HEADQUARTERS OF THE
SPECIAL INVESTIGATIVE COMMITTEE
ON THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD


Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.


Members
Harry S Truman of Indiana, Secretary of State
Classic Conservative of Texas
Southern Gothic of Louisiana
Logged
Classic Conservative
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,628


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2016, 08:00:01 AM »

X Classic Conservative
Logged
White Trash
Southern Gothic
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,910


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2016, 07:01:37 PM »

x Southern Gothic
Logged
Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,142


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2016, 10:58:39 PM »

Thank you both. In the interests of time, I will assume presidency of this body in my capacity as Secretary of State, unless the committee should desire a different arrangement.

I think our best first step would be for Classic Conservative to list the sources he used to draft the original bill. This should give us a general picture of the case in favor of classifying the Muslim Brotherhood as a terrorist organization, and provide a basis for further investigation.
Logged
Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,142


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2016, 02:13:21 PM »

Mr. Representative?
Logged
Classic Conservative
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,628


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2016, 03:45:28 PM »


Sorry for the long wait, I completely forgot about this.

This is the bill that is currently introduced in the House and Senate which is sponsored by both Democrats and Republicans. I got much of my information from this bill specifically Section 2.
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/114/hr3892/text

I know this is from an Anti-Islam website the so called 'Clairon Project', but this document listed was used as evidence in a US Foreign Terror Funding Trial the so called "Holy Land Terror Funding Trial". (It's also the only version I could find in English)
http://www.clarionproject.org/Muslim_Brotherhood_Explanatory_Memorandum

This is a fact sheet with quotes from Muslim Brotherhood Leaders including one quote which says "The Muslim Brotherhood wants America to fall."
https://www.standwithus.com/news/article.asp?id=1757

If members want more information, I am happy to provide it but this is what I used to draft my bill.
Logged
Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,142


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2016, 10:44:00 PM »

Thank you, Mr. Representative.

I should hope that it is unnecessary for me to repeat how truly horrifying the ideology of the Muslim Brotherhood and similar groups is. This is a group that stands against every value upon which this country was founded: democracy, individual freedom, the equality of all people before the law. That is not what we are here to decide. We are here to determine whether or not they qualify as a terrorist organization under federal law. I would bid everyone to remember that.
 
Our first step must be to assess the credibility of these sources, and on that front, with the exception of the cited House Resolution, they leave something to be desired. I would like to address in particular the Explanatory Memorandum cited via the Clarion Project.

In preparing these remarks, I did some research of my own. The cited Memorandum, which the Clarion Project titles the "Muslim Brotherhood's Strategic Plan for America," is available from a number of online sources, all of them known either for their overt anti-Islam politics, their history of peddling conspiracy theories, or both.

The Clarion Project, as the representative acknowledges, is known for warning the world against Islam as a threat to Western Civilization. Other organizations that cite the Memorandum in their findings include the Center for Security Policy (CSP), widely considered a joke in foreign policy circles (the BBC described the think tank as "not very highly respected" in a December 2015 article, and the group's founder has been denounced by leaders on both sides of the aisle as an "anti-Muslim conspiracist" among other things); the Invesitgative Project on Terrorist (IPT), which pushes an overtly anti-Islam agenda and whose webpage carries such sensational headlines as "Why is Virginia a Haven for Would-Be Jihadists?"; Shariathreat.org (hopefully we all see the problem with this one); etc.

I could find no credible foreign policy figure or organization that considers the Memorandum a reliable source. Furthermore, an article published by the Bridge Initiative (an imprint of Georgetown University) describes the CSP's claims that the Memorandum reflects the intentions of the Muslim Brotherhood as an "exaggeration" and a "conspiracy theory" and further notes that the document was rejected by the Muslim Brotherhood and does not reflect ideas or strategies that the Brotherhood has advanced, before or since. The article states that, "according to a 2009 opinion by the presiding judge [for the Hold Land Foundation trial], the memo was not considered 'supporting evidence' for that alleged money laundering scheme, nor any other conspiracy."

In light of this, the conclusion I have reached is that the Memorandum is not a reliable source for analyzing the nature and intentions of the Muslim Brotherhood as an organization. This document appears to be a favorite of fringe commentators and extremist groups, but it lacks the endorsement of mainstream analysts and policy makers.


The Stand With Us fact sheet is free of most of the criticisms that apply to the Explanatory Memorandum: that is, the organization that published it is not an extremist group. It is, however, an advocacy group that exists to promote a particular opinion, and it is therefore impossible for us to be sure that this document is entirely objective. Furthermore, not all of the material cited in the fact sheet support the conclusion that the Brotherhood is a terrorist group: one passage quotes a "spiritual leader" of the group as saying, "I am certain that this time, victory will be won not by the sword but by preaching and [Islamic] ideology."


It's getting late, and this post is getting long, so I will make my review of the House Resolution tomorrow.
Logged
Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,142


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2016, 11:33:23 PM »

Thank you all for your patience.

I do not feel it necessary to expound in length on the quality of the House Resolution cited by the representative. In brief, I find this source to be a reliable source of information, and a useful one, as it clearly states the factual reasons for classifying the Muslim Brotherhood as a terrorist organization. Broadly speaking, Section 2 of the Resolution presents to kinds of evidence in support of this action:

                1) Actions or statements of intent made by leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood on behalf of
                the Brotherhood as an organization;
                2) Actions or statements of intent made by members of the Muslim Brotherhood of their own
                volition.

What I find most instructive about this document is that most, if not all, of the examples of terrorist activity that can be classified under (1) took place as much as thirty years ago; most of the recent examples fit the conditions of (2). This excepts the third category of evidence, which I find wholly irrelevant to our deliberation: that is, examples of other nations (predominantly totalitarian states such as Russia and Syria) who have designated the Muslim Brotherhood a terrorist group. I do not find these examples instructive because (a) the reasons that these nations designate the Brotherhood a terrorist group are not given by the Resolution; and (b) the interests of a state such as  the Russian Federation do not necessarily reflect the interests of the Republic of Atlasia, and it would therefore be foolish to blindly follow suit.

I intend to read the Resolution again, more closely, and I would be very interested to hear my fellow committee members' thoughts on the matter. Representative Conservative, Mr. Gothic: you have the floor.
Logged
White Trash
Southern Gothic
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,910


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2016, 08:20:02 PM »
« Edited: August 12, 2016, 08:22:15 PM by Southern Gothic »

If it would please the committee,

I would like to preface what I'm about to say with the fact that I still have not made my own personal decision on whether or not the resolution shall pass or fail. I can only provide my reactions to a handful of pieces pertaining to the matter.

First off, I'd like to mention the face that there is already international precedence for recognizing the Muslim Brotherhood as a terrorist organization. As of 2014; Russia, the United Arab Emirates, and Saudi Arabia and the ruling government in Egypt have declared the organization as such. Each of these nations cited a long history of the Brotherhood having strong ties to paramilitary groups in the Middle East, many of which were terrorist organizations including Hezbollah, Hamas, and ISIS.

Whether these claims can be trusted given their sources is debatable. But I firmly believe that we can trust the recommendations and the findings of our closest ally, the United Kingdom. Prime Minister Cameron tasked a group on researching the Brotherhood to establish possible ties to terrorist organizations. He said, quote;

"Parts of the Muslim Brotherhood have a highly ambiguous relationship with violent extremism. Both as an ideology and as a network it has been a rite of passage for some individuals and groups who have gone on to engage in violence and terrorism,"

"The main findings of the review support the conclusion that membership of, association with, or influence by the Muslim Brotherhood should be considered as a possible indicator of extremism," he said."

While Prime Minister Cameron spoke with a tinge of moderation, it was clear the report pointed in the direction of recognizing the Muslim Brotherhood as a terrorist organization and begin taking the steps to remove their damaging influence on geopolitics in the region.

I yield the floor.
Logged
Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,142


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2016, 07:22:45 PM »

Here's a link to the report by the British government referenced by Southern Gothic:

Logged
tmthforu94
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,401
United States


Political Matrix
E: -0.26, S: -4.52

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2016, 10:11:04 AM »

This is past due. I urge the committee to reach a decision as soon as possible.
Logged
Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,142


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2016, 10:44:04 PM »

My apologies to the Congress for dropping the ball on this. We will have this wrapped up shortly.

At this point, having reviewed the evidence presented, I am not convinced that the Muslim Brotherhood qualifies as a terrorist organization. Having a twisted ideology is not sufficient for this designation, and the argument in favor lacks recent examples of terrorist acts carried out on the orders of the Brotherhood.

I will give my fellow committee members twenty-four hours to convince me to the contrary; otherwise, I will move that the sentiment expressed above be reported as the official position of this committee. 
Logged
Pages: [1]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.043 seconds with 12 queries.