Did Bernie Sanders hurt Hillary more than Benghazi ever did?

[uti2]

Hillary's early polling numbers vs. the republican candidates back in 2013/2014/early 2015 were very good, close to Biden-levels in hypothetical matchups, they showed easy wins for Hillary, they did not start to decline until Bernie started hitting her from the left (calling her a Wall Street puppet, etc.).

If Hillary had run against a more moderate/typical dem like booker or biden how much better would she be doing better than she is now?

[KingSweden]

I think yes, though the email debacle didn't help

[This account no longer in use.]

Not really. Hillary was declining far before Sanders was relevant in any way.

[Xing]

Not really. People just liked Hillary more when she wasn't running for a higher position of power. It was bound to happen, and regardless of what Sanders said or did, these faux scandals would have been peddled by the right.

[uti2]

Not really. People just liked Hillary more when she wasn't running for a higher position of power. It was bound to happen, and regardless of what Sanders said or did, these faux scandals would have been peddled by the right.

Yeah, but the point is that those faux scandals had zero impact on either obama or hillary from the perspective of the left. If some left wing voters didn't vote for Obama in 2012, it had nothing to do with benghazi, it had to do with whether or not they felt he was progressive enough. It was only when Hillary was being attacked by Bernie for being a corporate puppet did progressives start to latch on to those faux scandals and try to make them real issues. Possibly Bernie knows the damage he's done, and hence why he's enthusiastically endorsing Hillary now.

[Lyin' Steve]

I'm tempted to say Benghazi hurt more because the investigations were what led to the discovery of her email server in the first place, but most likely if there was no email scandal it would have been replaced by the Clinton cash stuff.  People just need some phony scandal to latch onto to justify their hatred of her.  Bernie probably hurt her more by making it cool on the left not just to hate her but to hate all democrats, the media, and everyone who says anything positive about her.

Also, I independent of this election, the green tea party movement is going to be a thorn in Hillary's side and impede her efforts for at least the next cycle or two.

[uti2]

I'm tempted to say Benghazi hurt more because the investigations were what led to the discovery of her email server in the first place, but most likely if there was no email scandal it would have been replaced by the Clinton cash stuff.  People just need some phony scandal to latch onto to justify their hatred of her.  Bernie probably hurt her more by making it cool on the left not just to hate her but to hate all democrats, the media, and everyone who says anything positive about her.

Also, I independent of this election, the green tea party movement is going to be a thorn in Hillary's side and impede her efforts for at least the next cycle or two.

There is no way the democratic party would allow something like that. The best the green tea party can hope for a center-left obama/warren style candidate. Hillary can get over it, if she starts attacking republicans in general for the gridlock in congress, failing to pass single payer, etc. Basically, Hillary needs to start acting more like Ted Cruz (it's interesting to see the ways in which obama and ted cruz are alike), grandstand, blame the other side for everything, make appearances with left politicians like Bernie/Warren, saying that I tried, but it failed to pass because of the republicans, and then rally the progressive base like that. That's what Obama did to get reelected.

[This account no longer in use.]

(it's interesting to see the ways in which obama and ted cruz are alike)

Obama may be many things, but he never killed five people in cold blood.

[IceSpear]

No, Hillary was hurt because the media hated her and wanted a horse race. Nothing more, nothing less. Like others have said, if it wasn't the emails they would've found something else to harp on for a year until her image tanked.

[Trapsy]

No, Hillary was hurt because the media hated her and wanted a horse race. Nothing more, nothing less. Like others have said, if it wasn't the emails they would've found something else to harp on for a year until her image tanked.

Com'n dude. We know the emails were problematic.

[IceSpear]

No, Hillary was hurt because the media hated her and wanted a horse race. Nothing more, nothing less. Like others have said, if it wasn't the emails they would've found something else to harp on for a year until her image tanked.

Com'n dude. We know the emails were problematic.

Who said they weren't? But the media already blew their wad about it and turned it into Watergate 2.0 even before the more seedy aspects of the email fiasco were known. It was very clear the narrative was already set. If it was not that, it would've been something else.

[Trapsy]

No, Hillary was hurt because the media hated her and wanted a horse race. Nothing more, nothing less. Like others have said, if it wasn't the emails they would've found something else to harp on for a year until her image tanked.

Com'n dude. We know the emails were problematic.

Who said they weren't? But the media already blew their wad about it and turned it into Watergate 2.0 even before the more seedy aspects of the email fiasco were known. It was very clear the narrative was already set. If it was not that, it would've been something else.

I am very pro-Hillary and I think she made a huge mistake on this. Benghazi scandal was already disproven but the emails were really bad. Repubs had a strong case against her for that.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

No.  In fact, I'm tempted to say he helped her because I can't imagine Clinton would've generated much enthusiasm running unopposed, leaving voters with the impression that she's unvetted.  (The Berniebro /s4p/ types were never going to vote in November anyway, and they represent a small minority of Sanders voters.)

The emails definitely hurt her.  The media does have an anti-Hillary bias, I think, for sure, but the FBI's pronouncement on the matter wasn't exactly glamorous even barring an indictment.

[Koharu]

No.  In fact, I'm tempted to say he helped her because I can't imagine Clinton would've generated much enthusiasm running unopposed, leaving voters with the impression that she's unvetted.  (The Berniebro /s4p/ types were never going to vote in November anyway, and they represent a small minority of Sanders voters.)

Agreed. I think it helped generate some energy in the Democrat base. We'll see if it lasts until election time, but I hope so.

[cMac36]

No Bernie means no competitive Dem Primary.  Trump then owns airwaves for entirety of Primary season.  Bernie did make Clinton dance on TPP and other issues.  That in particular was a favor given that against all odds gOP nominee is most Protectionist since Willkie? 

tldr Bernie did make Dem hypocrisy more crystallized but on balance not a negative for her.  Benghazi not cared about but GOP die-hards bad comparison.

[uti2]

No, Hillary was hurt because the media hated her and wanted a horse race. Nothing more, nothing less. Like others have said, if it wasn't the emails they would've found something else to harp on for a year until her image tanked.

Then why didn't they do that to obama? It's not just the right-wing media attacking her, it's also the left-wing, the latter largely due to pent-up leftist rage that found a vent in Bernie.

[IceSpear]

No, Hillary was hurt because the media hated her and wanted a horse race. Nothing more, nothing less. Like others have said, if it wasn't the emails they would've found something else to harp on for a year until her image tanked.

Then why didn't they do that to obama? It's not just the right-wing media attacking her, it's also the left-wing, the latter largely due to pent-up leftist rage that found a vent in Bernie.

Because Obama was/is a media darling. And even with him they wanted to push a horse race for ratings. Remember how they were still pretending McCain had a chance in October?

[uti2]

No Bernie means no competitive Dem Primary.  Trump then owns airwaves for entirety of Primary season.  Bernie did make Clinton dance on TPP and other issues.  That in particular was a favor given that against all odds gOP nominee is most Protectionist since Willkie? 

tldr Bernie did make Dem hypocrisy more crystallized but on balance not a negative for her.  Benghazi not cared about but GOP die-hards bad comparison.

There still would've been a primary, o'malley v. hillary, some minimal media attention, but most of the media attention in bernie v. hillary was extremely negative for hillary, propaganda about wall street, hillary betraying working people, etc. A generic democrat wouldn't have done that to her.

[cMac36]

No, Hillary was hurt because the media hated her and wanted a horse race. Nothing more, nothing less. Like others have said, if it wasn't the emails they would've found something else to harp on for a year until her image tanked.

Then why didn't they do that to obama? It's not just the right-wing media attacking her, it's also the left-wing, the latter largely due to pent-up leftist rage that found a vent in Bernie.

Because Obama was/is a media darling. And even with him they wanted to push a horse race for ratings. Remember how they were still pretending McCain had a chance in October?

PPL like to forget Obama McCain were tied before the big crash. 

As for other dude We may talk vents as they are what is visible but emotion and feeling, while not necessarily material ie secretions, are clearly of existence in some form.

[uti2]

No, Hillary was hurt because the media hated her and wanted a horse race. Nothing more, nothing less. Like others have said, if it wasn't the emails they would've found something else to harp on for a year until her image tanked.

Then why didn't they do that to obama? It's not just the right-wing media attacking her, it's also the left-wing, the latter largely due to pent-up leftist rage that found a vent in Bernie.

Because Obama was/is a media darling. And even with him they wanted to push a horse race for ratings. Remember how they were still pretending McCain had a chance in October?

Obama was hated by the right of course, but the left loved him because they thought he was a leftist, the problem with hillary is that the left doesn't like her due to her track record, and bernie's mere appearance gave the left another excuse to attack her.

[Vega]

I'm tempted to say Benghazi hurt more because the investigations were what led to the discovery of her email server in the first place, but most likely if there was no email scandal it would have been replaced by the Clinton cash stuff.  People just need some phony scandal to latch onto to justify their hatred of her.  Bernie probably hurt her more by making it cool on the left not just to hate her but to hate all democrats, the media, and everyone who says anything positive about her.

Also, I independent of this election, the green tea party movement is going to be a thorn in Hillary's side and impede her efforts for at least the next cycle or two.

This was probably going to happen if anyone from the left of the party challenged her. Everybody seems to hate HRC, and it doesn't take them much to find a reason to do so.

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

Yes.

[Kingpoleon]

(it's interesting to see the ways in which obama and ted cruz are alike)

Obama may be many things, but he never killed five people in cold blood.

I think he meant more idealistic inexperienced Senator who can't really understand working with the other side.

[OwlRhetoric]

It's pretty obvious Bernie did more damage than Benghazi, and I'm not a Clinton supporter. Benghazi only resonated with Republicans and a small cross section of independents. Sanders aggressively hit her from the left and stirred up at least a few clingers who will remain bitter enough to go Johnson/Stein into the election.

[Frodo]

It's pretty obvious Bernie did more damage than Benghazi, and I'm not a Clinton supporter. Benghazi only resonated with Republicans and a small cross section of independents. Sanders aggressively hit her from the left and stirred up at least a few clingers who will remain bitter enough to go Johnson/Stein into the election.

But he also provided Hillary with a competitive primary that energized the base in a way that an uncontested coronation would never have done.

No one should have assumed that outcome wouldn't be a double-edged sword.  Though I believe the positives will ultimately outweigh the negatives to Hillary's favor in November.