Hillary: "I will not win WV, I can tell you that."

[RaphaelDLG]

More proof IceSpear is actively involved in the Clinton campaign.

IceSpear is actually Charlotte's son from the future doing some extended time traveling who idolizes his great-grandmother and hates West Virginia for being her worst state in her election bid.

[dspNY]

Who said Hillary had an honesty problem?

[Breton Racer]

Back in '08 she would have easily won WV, but she will not come close this year, funny that the last Democrat to win the state was her husband in 1996, he won it by 15%.

[Ebowed]

But comments like this show a combination of disrespect for the hard and dangerous work WV's coal miners have performed

The real disrespect is from the owners of coal companies, who:
1. Did everything in their power to stop regulation that would have protected the safety and health of their workers;
2. Did nothing to look after, let alone retrain, the workers after closing;
3. Kept all the profits while leaving behind economic decimation and uncleaned environmental catastrophe

The next time you want to lecture us about the way we talk about white coal miners in WV, you might want to have a look at the way they have been treated by the people who supposedly provide everything for them.  There's nothing insulting about recognizing what a terrible situation that is.  It's high time the people of West Virginia got something better.  And no, I don't mean false promises from a reality TV celebrity.

[Fuzzy Bear]

But comments like this show a combination of disrespect for the hard and dangerous work WV's coal miners have performed

The real disrespect is from the owners of coal companies, who:
1. Did everything in their power to stop regulation that would have protected the safety and health of their workers;
2. Did nothing to look after, let alone retrain, the workers after closing;
3. Kept all the profits while leaving behind economic decimation and uncleaned environmental catastrophe

The next time you want to lecture us about the way we talk about white coal miners in WV, you might want to have a look at the way they have been treated by the people who supposedly provide everything for them.  There's nothing insulting about recognizing what a terrible situation that is.  It's high time the people of West Virginia got something better.  And no, I don't mean false promises from a reality TV celebrity.

The Green Party promises nothing for the people of WV besides a decimation of their coal jobs.

I'll agree with the negative comment on mine owners; most of them are scumbags who do the minimum they can get away with on mine safety.

[Ebowed]

The Green Party promises nothing for the people of WV besides a decimation of their coal jobs.

I don't follow the reference (I'm not a member of the US Greens if that's what you're getting at), but either way, all leftists tend to agree that the best way forward is to provide aid and training to displaced workers, rather than just ignoring them and hoping that they will all get onto disability insurance which seems to be the current way of handling it.  The idea that there is a market for the coal that Trump is promising to get these workers to mine is one of the most laughably false statements made in this election.  So, again, feigning concern for these people when they are literally being scammed - well, your anger is misdirected.

[Skye]

Sharp woman.

[Badger]

When working class folks abandon the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party will abandon the working class.  It will affect the policies that party will espouse, and the kind of officeholders it will produce.

People love to complain about "racism" here, and racism is wrong, but what about the implicit displays of contempt toward the kind of white working class folks in places like WV that come out here? 

You must be logged in to read this quote.

That's one example.  Yes, I understand the issue about Global Warming, and, no, I'm not a climate denier.  But comments like this show a combination of disrespect for the hard and dangerous work WV's coal miners have performed, coupled with a dig at them and the implication that the environmental left are "better" than "retrograde" coal miners.  If folks want to believe this and post this, that's their right, but when they talk about "inclusiveness" and "tolerance", I remember their attitudes toward WV's coal miners while concluding that they are full of something worse than beans.

Fuzzy, even when I disagree with you--and I don't think I do here--you usually put thought into your responses. Thanks.

OK, maybe time to slow on the bourbon.

[Fuzzy Bear]

The Green Party promises nothing for the people of WV besides a decimation of their coal jobs.

I don't follow the reference (I'm not a member of the US Greens if that's what you're getting at), but either way, all leftists tend to agree that the best way forward is to provide aid and training to displaced workers, rather than just ignoring them and hoping that they will all get onto disability insurance which seems to be the current way of handling it.  The idea that there is a market for the coal that Trump is promising to get these workers to mine is one of the most laughably false statements made in this election.  So, again, feigning concern for these people when they are literally being scammed - well, your anger is misdirected.

Ah, the "aid" and "training".  These were the sort of things the fictional Gov. Jack Stanton promised the displaced workers in Primary Colors. 

How does that work out in real life?  One thing that happens is that a lot of training doesn't lead to a job in the area where displaced workers live.  Another thing that happens is that many displaced workers can't afford lengthy training, so they choose shorter-term retraining issues that lead to jobs that are less than what they had.  This is especially true of the older displaced workers who face the most age discrimination in finding new employment, or the discrimination many employers freely and callously practice against the long-term unemployed. 

The bottom line is that these people are screwed and the Left doesn't really care because (A) they're overwhelmingly white (no racism/discrimination backstory), (B) they're socially conservative, and (C) they hate the coal mining industry to the point where they don't care about the workers.   

[RaphaelDLG]

The Green Party promises nothing for the people of WV besides a decimation of their coal jobs.

I don't follow the reference (I'm not a member of the US Greens if that's what you're getting at), but either way, all leftists tend to agree that the best way forward is to provide aid and training to displaced workers, rather than just ignoring them and hoping that they will all get onto disability insurance which seems to be the current way of handling it.  The idea that there is a market for the coal that Trump is promising to get these workers to mine is one of the most laughably false statements made in this election.  So, again, feigning concern for these people when they are literally being scammed - well, your anger is misdirected.

Ah, the "aid" and "training".  These were the sort of things the fictional Gov. Jack Stanton promised the displaced workers in Primary Colors. 

How does that work out in real life?  One thing that happens is that a lot of training doesn't lead to a job in the area where displaced workers live.  Another thing that happens is that many displaced workers can't afford lengthy training, so they choose shorter-term retraining issues that lead to jobs that are less than what they had.  This is especially true of the older displaced workers who face the most age discrimination in finding new employment, or the discrimination many employers freely and callously practice against the long-term unemployed. 

The bottom line is that these people are screwed and the Left doesn't really care because (A) they're overwhelmingly white (no racism/discrimination backstory), (B) they're socially conservative, and (C) they hate the coal mining industry to the point where they don't care about the workers.   

You're not really proposing any better solutions, though.  The aid and training isn't great, but it's better than 1) a handout, 2) doing absolutely nothing to help the workers like Republicans believe in and 3) letting climate change continue to destroy the planet.

[Fuzzy Bear]

The Green Party promises nothing for the people of WV besides a decimation of their coal jobs.

I don't follow the reference (I'm not a member of the US Greens if that's what you're getting at), but either way, all leftists tend to agree that the best way forward is to provide aid and training to displaced workers, rather than just ignoring them and hoping that they will all get onto disability insurance which seems to be the current way of handling it.  The idea that there is a market for the coal that Trump is promising to get these workers to mine is one of the most laughably false statements made in this election.  So, again, feigning concern for these people when they are literally being scammed - well, your anger is misdirected.

Ah, the "aid" and "training".  These were the sort of things the fictional Gov. Jack Stanton promised the displaced workers in Primary Colors. 

How does that work out in real life?  One thing that happens is that a lot of training doesn't lead to a job in the area where displaced workers live.  Another thing that happens is that many displaced workers can't afford lengthy training, so they choose shorter-term retraining issues that lead to jobs that are less than what they had.  This is especially true of the older displaced workers who face the most age discrimination in finding new employment, or the discrimination many employers freely and callously practice against the long-term unemployed. 

The bottom line is that these people are screwed and the Left doesn't really care because (A) they're overwhelmingly white (no racism/discrimination backstory), (B) they're socially conservative, and (C) they hate the coal mining industry to the point where they don't care about the workers.   

You're not really proposing any better solutions, though.  The aid and training isn't great, but it's better than 1) a handout, 2) doing absolutely nothing to help the workers like Republicans believe in and 3) letting climate change continue to destroy the planet.

"Doing absolutely nothing" would keep WV coal miners employed.

I agree that this is in conflict with your third point, but to what degree?  Another Inconvenient Truth is that while there are ALTERNATIVES to Fossil Fuels, there is no SUBSTITUTE for Fossil Fuels, at least not as of now.

[RaphaelDLG]

The Green Party promises nothing for the people of WV besides a decimation of their coal jobs.

I don't follow the reference (I'm not a member of the US Greens if that's what you're getting at), but either way, all leftists tend to agree that the best way forward is to provide aid and training to displaced workers, rather than just ignoring them and hoping that they will all get onto disability insurance which seems to be the current way of handling it.  The idea that there is a market for the coal that Trump is promising to get these workers to mine is one of the most laughably false statements made in this election.  So, again, feigning concern for these people when they are literally being scammed - well, your anger is misdirected.

Ah, the "aid" and "training".  These were the sort of things the fictional Gov. Jack Stanton promised the displaced workers in Primary Colors. 

How does that work out in real life?  One thing that happens is that a lot of training doesn't lead to a job in the area where displaced workers live.  Another thing that happens is that many displaced workers can't afford lengthy training, so they choose shorter-term retraining issues that lead to jobs that are less than what they had.  This is especially true of the older displaced workers who face the most age discrimination in finding new employment, or the discrimination many employers freely and callously practice against the long-term unemployed. 

The bottom line is that these people are screwed and the Left doesn't really care because (A) they're overwhelmingly white (no racism/discrimination backstory), (B) they're socially conservative, and (C) they hate the coal mining industry to the point where they don't care about the workers.   

You're not really proposing any better solutions, though.  The aid and training isn't great, but it's better than 1) a handout, 2) doing absolutely nothing to help the workers like Republicans believe in and 3) letting climate change continue to destroy the planet.

"Doing absolutely nothing" would keep WV coal miners employed.

I agree that this is in conflict with your third point, but to what degree?  Another Inconvenient Truth is that while there are ALTERNATIVES to Fossil Fuels, there is no SUBSTITUTE for Fossil Fuels, at least not as of now.

I meant "do absolutely nothing" after the workers got displaced, to clarify.

[Ebowed]

"Doing absolutely nothing" would keep WV coal miners employed.

Not really.  Market shifts indicate that dirty energy is becoming less and less attractive.  Trump is proposing to artificially prop up a dying industry - the exact opposite of supposed Republican orthodoxy.  Regardless, avoiding regulations against pollution is not a long-term plan for West Virginia.  And your nonsense about "the Left" not caring about these people because they're white is over the top, don't you think?  Stop trying to pick at petty divisions.  People all over the country have been left behind.  It doesn't matter what they look like.  It only matters to Donald Trump.

[Fuzzy Bear]

"Doing absolutely nothing" would keep WV coal miners employed.

Not really.  Market shifts indicate that dirty energy is becoming less and less attractive.  Trump is proposing to artificially prop up a dying industry - the exact opposite of supposed Republican orthodoxy.  Regardless, avoiding regulations against pollution is not a long-term plan for West Virginia.  And your nonsense about "the Left" not caring about these people because they're white is over the top, don't you think?  Stop trying to pick at petty divisions.  People all over the country have been left behind.  It doesn't matter what they look like.  It only matters to Donald Trump.

The left will never own its contempt for rural white folks, even the poor ones.  They hate them because they're Christian and socially conservative, and usually pro-gun.  They view liberals as the folks that deliberately eliminated their jobs, and they're not delusional on that point. 

Liberals go on and on whenever some sort of budget cut or program elimination is rammed through into law.  They complain that the measure is balancing the budget on the backs of some specific vulnerable constituency.  They're not wrong in this; the only true way EVERYONE tightens their belts during times of sacrifice is by a tax increase; cuts to programs are often means of devastating a small number of people so others don't have to feel any pain.  But what has been done to the coal miners in WV is balancing the environmental issue on the backs of WV coal miners and the like, so no one else can feel the pain.  And the left is fine with decimating the independence of these folks, turning them into recipients of training for jobs that often don't exist in their own community, and for some sort of "welfare", which runs counter to their work ethic.  Their pride and self-esteem are decimated along with their finances.  And liberals don't care; they really don't, because these folks don't share "progressive values".

[DINGO Joe]

Some basic realities

1--Renewable energy like wind and solar cost coal workers jobs--out West, but not in WV.

2--Natural Gas, thanks to fracking, the Marcellus/Utica and a type of power plant called a Combined Cycle is totally gutting the Appalachian coal industry.  In some places, the NG industry overlaps with coal and does provide some alternative jobs, but even then it requires fewer people to get NG out of the ground and fewer people to run NG power plants.

3--Most mining towns aren't located like normal towns which seek ease of commerce.  Mining towns are built by the source they seek.  Getting a rail line built is first priority. Roads, electricity, water were all secondary thoughts, and the terrain makes providing these things very difficult to maintain, especially as the population has declined over the last seven decades. As far as something more recent, WV ranks #47 in broadband access. 

4--The WV work force looks like this:



And keep in mind that the Eastern Panhandle of WV near DC looks like the national workforce, and the rest of the state looks even worse.

5--Combine infrastructure and the workforce at hand, and it is pretty obvious why the chances of getting employers into the region is almost nil.  Especially in the most challenged parts of East Kentucky, South WV and SW VA. 

6--The one person who could drag federal jobs and money into WV almost unilaterally, is dead.

In my opinion, worker retraining is a must, but trying to make viable communities out of places as difficult to live after the economic impetus for them to exist is gone makes no sense.  In some cases, picking a viable location or two is already underway as could be successful, but overall the population should decline and consolidate. 

Telling Appalachian coal workers that you'll make coal great again is an outright lie.

[WVdemocrat]

The truth. But a really dumb thing to say taking down ballot races into account.

You're referring to the governor's race? I can't forsee this significantly impacting it at all. This comment hasn't received broad coverage really.