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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« on: August 02, 2016, 09:37:39 PM »

Write-in: Arya Stark/The Hound
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2016, 05:45:57 AM »

To be fair to Sansa, she's a traumatized teenage girl and he's a creepy pimp who's blatantly grooming her.

Of course, and besides, she's not even supposed to know the role Littlefinger played in Ned's death. Still, I really hope she's grown smart enough to know who to trust (read: I really hope the screenwriters won't decide to derail her character yet again as they did in season 5 just for the sake of another SHOCKING twist... faint hope, I know).

They didn't derail her character in season five.  Season six OTOH...
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2016, 06:16:35 PM »

To be fair to Sansa, she's a traumatized teenage girl and he's a creepy pimp who's blatantly grooming her.

Of course, and besides, she's not even supposed to know the role Littlefinger played in Ned's death. Still, I really hope she's grown smart enough to know who to trust (read: I really hope the screenwriters won't decide to derail her character yet again as they did in season 5 just for the sake of another SHOCKING twist... faint hope, I know).

They didn't derail her character in season five.  Season six OTOH...

What are you talking about? Yeah, I don't really understand why she didn't tell Jon about the Vale army, but that's excusable IMO. Certainly more so than the utter nonsense of the Winterfell plot in season 5.

The Winterfell plot made perfect sense and was nowhere near as graphic or bad as what happens in the books.  What did you think Ramsay was going to do on his wedding night?  The same thing as Tyrion?  

Sansa's whole arc in season six made no sense because literally no groundwork was laid for such a complete 180 in her depiction/characterization.  Her season six arc was muddled, poorly written, and to be blunt, pretty stupid imo.  
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2016, 05:33:42 AM »

To be fair to Sansa, she's a traumatized teenage girl and he's a creepy pimp who's blatantly grooming her.

Of course, and besides, she's not even supposed to know the role Littlefinger played in Ned's death. Still, I really hope she's grown smart enough to know who to trust (read: I really hope the screenwriters won't decide to derail her character yet again as they did in season 5 just for the sake of another SHOCKING twist... faint hope, I know).

They didn't derail her character in season five.  Season six OTOH...

What are you talking about? Yeah, I don't really understand why she didn't tell Jon about the Vale army, but that's excusable IMO. Certainly more so than the utter nonsense of the Winterfell plot in season 5.

The Winterfell plot made perfect sense and was nowhere near as graphic or bad as what happens in the books.  What did you think Ramsay was going to do on his wedding night?  The same thing as Tyrion? 

Sansa's whole arc in season six made no sense because literally no groundwork was laid for such a complete 180 in her depiction/characterization.  Her season six arc was muddled, poorly written, and to be blunt, pretty stupid imo. 

The point is that Sansa by the end of season 4 was smart enough to know all that and thus would never have followed along Littlefinger's stupid idea (and she also knew she couldn't quite trust Littlefinger). In season 5 her character regresses to what it was around seasons 1/2. She does an 180° in season 6 in order to rectify that.

Except 1) she clearly wasn't smart enough to know better in season five and 2) didn't really have a choice.
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2016, 05:15:26 PM »
« Edited: August 05, 2016, 06:28:21 PM by Malcolm X »

She had plenty of choice. She could have stayed in the Vale and spill the beans on Littlefinger to have him executed if he tried anything.

Both of which would've been 1) terrible decisions narratively speaking (remember, happily ever after storytelling doesn't automatically equal good storytelling), 2) made no sense in the context of the story.  Sansa isn't some sort of brilliant political mind and has always been a God-awful judge of character (kind of a defining feature tbh Tongue ).  Either of those (especially the second one) would've been Dorne-storyline level bad ideas.  It's one thing to change certain aspects of the story in an adaptation; it's another to do so in a way that flies directly in the face of the author of the source material's creative vision because it's what you personally would like to see happen.  What you proposed is not an adaptation, it's a fanfic (no offense).

Edit: Sorry if that was a bit harsher than intended, I'm coming down with something and haven't been in the best mood today Tongue
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2016, 07:23:05 AM »
« Edited: August 06, 2016, 09:14:37 AM by Malcolm X »

I hardly think it's 'happily ever after storytelling' to have Sansa holed up in the Vale indefinitely, more or less safe but away from home and lonely, but maybe that's just me. Also, that's...that's literally Sansa's current position in the books, minus having Littlefinger executed (which would be so satisfying after everything he'd at that point already done to her father, and her mother, and her, but again, maybe that's just me). Littlefinger is simply not an interesting character. His continued presence is a drag in both the books and the show.

Indeed, it seemed to me that there was a lot to be done in the Vale. I don't know how the book goes, but the show never actually bothered to create an actual intrigue centered there - which, in the situation following Lysa's death, could have been very interesting. You had at least three people (Royce, Littlefinger, and yes, Sansa herself) contending for influence over a fragile and unbalanced child ruler. I thought the point of late season 4 was precisely that Sansa was starting to become more politically savvy, developing some of Margaery's traits (while still remaining a Stark, of course). Season 5 undoes all this character development for the sake of having her be emotionally and physically broken by a sadistic monster yet again. What the hell did that bring to her character OR to the general narrative?

There wasn't any real political savvy demonstrated in season 4 beyond the mos superficial level.  Also the stuff with Sansa in season 5 had to happen for Theon to break from the Reek identity.  I'd also argue Sansa being stuck in the Vale like to in books would've been really boring (just like in the books Tongue ) and she wasn't safe with LF being an even bigger creep than he is on the show (which is saying something) and folks like Ser Lyn Corbrey and Ser Shadrich floating around.  Narrative economy made depicting the post-Lysa chapter-long power struggle impractical.

Edit: Btw, I think you're someone who would definitely like the books more than the show from what you've said because there is more time for things like Arya's post-RW grieving process and generally far more complex emotional conflict with regard to killing (you get the sense that it's something deeply traumatic that has become this poor, sad child's way of dealing with her helplessness in the face of all innocent people/loved ones she wishes she could protect rather than something she enjoys and the arc seems to be partly about holding onto her identity and realizing that revenge won't bring her peace before, IMO and in the books the faceless men have a coherent ideology and never try to force her to stay, at least so far), political intrigue (Roose and Lady Barbrey's schemes in the North/the Manderly storyline, the Kevan-Cersei dynamic, LF actually making some pretty clever post-Lysa political moves in the Vale, Varys having a coherent over-arching plan, etc), far more complex and consistent characterization for certain characters (Tyrion, Sansa, Arya, the Hound, Jon Snow, Varys, and Edmure Tully all come to mind, but there are certainly others), and a non-nihilistic and anti-violence resolution to the Hound's arc. 

OTOH, I think you'd also see (especially in season five) why some of the things you didn't like were done.  The fourth book was awful and the fifth was a mixed bag at best b/c there was a ton of fat (especially the world-building kind) that simply needed to be trimmed. Additionally, some FeastDance storylines (like Brienne's and Sansa's) simply didn't work, to put it mildly.  As a result, the show either merged some storylines from the two most recent books were merged with others (Sansa was given Jeyne Poole's ADWD storyline rather than sitting around in the Vale and being forced to kiss LF shortly before/after calling him "father"), heavily trimmed (Tyrion's endless travelogue, the Kingsmoot/Ironborn subplot), or completely replaced (Brienne and Pod wandering aimlessly through Riverlands).  There are also some folks like Alliser Thorne, the High Sparrow, Tommen, Tywin, Joffrey, Margaery, Olenna, etc who are either far more complex or given far more to do than in the books.  I like the show better overall (despite my huge dislike of certain aspects of season six like Sansa suddenly becoming a politician with no previous groundwork, Tyrion's storyline, etc), but if the next two seasons are like the last one that may change, IDK.  Lastly, you'll find if you read the books that Dorne still sucks Tongue  Nothing good except Oberyn ever came out of it in the books or the show.
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2016, 06:42:48 AM »

America now has Euron Greyjoy/The High Sparrow Sad
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2017, 02:08:31 PM »

America now has Euron Greyjoy/The High Sparrow Sad

Trump is more of a 70-year-old version of Joffrey Baratheon.

Euron is too badass to be Trump. If anything, Euron is (a more flamboyant version of) Putin. Tongue

I meant season six Euron.
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