Satanic Temple to open elementary school programs

[Antonio the Sixth]

I'm not sure you understood what I meant by that sentence. I just meant I'm trying to grow a thicker skin.

But again, please tell me why many people think I'm an asshole. I'm genuinely curious at this point.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

FWIW my ex was a LaVeyan Satanist (yes, I had a long-term "relationship" with a Satanist, it was a very long time ago and not something I'm proud of) and it's really nothing more than glorified, commercialized atheism, but cast in a way that's directly opposed to Christianity, rather than religions in general.  And it perfectly aligns with Ayn Rand's philosophy, according to its founder (though most of its followers don't seem to know or care).  The occultism stuff is mostly for show.  That's why this "church" is basically a joke and an okay choice if you want to take a jab at your Catholic parents, but not much more.

If you wanna go neopagan, go big or go home.



(Just don't burn down any churches or murder people.)

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Fair enough, I didn't remember you had taken that precaution. That post remains deeply condescending nonetheless.

I'll also remind you that we had a very interesting and substantive discussion in the wake of that post, until you abruptly stopped responding.

Yes. Sharing a personal experience is clearly condescending. And substantive discussions (of which you apparently remember, yet also misremember) that reach a natural end are in fact indications of me being 'abrupt'.

Sharing isn't, but when in the same post you manage to say both:

Why should you trust someone that says ‘I need this’ or ‘You need this because it did x for me’?

and:

And here’s the thing. When you stand on the street in front of a Christian preacher after spending a half hour discussing the New Testament and years of ‘Nathaning’ about religion and you whisper to yourself; ‘I don’t think God exists’ and then those words actually leave your mouth, it’s like a punch in the gut. And it smarts for a few days and then it’s fine. You still get up in the morning, you are still the same person. You don’t become ‘better’ but you don’t become ‘worse’ as an individual. Because you realise that who you are as a person has always been independent from what you believed. Your faith was never ‘informing the rest of you’.
You think you need something until you don’t. You don’t replace it with a need to be really really really really NOT believe in god, because the whole concept removes itself from your general list of priorities.

It does come across as condescending.  It wouldn't have if you'd replaced all those second person pronouns in that paragraph with first person pronouns so that you didn't try to present your personal experience as something other than that.  When you post the subject of religion, your posts often carry an air of — O you poor misguided theists. Someday you'll come to realize the truth as I have, if you only have the courage to face it.  I get that the religious experience you have had in your life has not been something that you have found fulfilling. I wish it were otherwise, but so long as you have found something fulfilling, that's fine.

[RaphaelDLG]

I don't think anybody in this thread so far understands the intention behind these programs. 

While I think the atheists who are behind this would like for kids to have fun, reject superstition, and develop critical thinking skills, it's obviously mainly intended as a separation of church and state protest.

The point of ramming "Satanic Temple" programs down the government's throat is to illustrate how stupid it is that religiously affiliated after-school programs are allowed in schools, and is an attempt to end such incestuous practices/affiliations between church and state.

You can argue whether the programs are a clear violation of separation of church and state or not, of course.  I'd have to know more about them before I decided whether I support the protest, but in general I'm broadly sympathetic to efforts like this, though I don't like to alienate religious people in practice.

[This account no longer in use.]

I wonder if fedora tipping will be an elective.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Now that's what I call 'seed perfuming'!

[Zioneer]

They're opening up one of these in Salt Lake City, so it'll be interesting to see my fellow Mormon's reactions.

[DC Al Fine]

Good.

I guess religion has no value whatsoever except when it's explicitly based on a culturally meaningless joke?

Who are you to determine the sincerity behind Satanism? How cheap.

Did you not read the description, or are you just being disingenuous?

No. I'm asking you why deconstructing these concessions to religion, using the systems the state has put in place, is not as valid or as important as constructing them.

Well, for one, it's not actually gonna work, since aside from a few hipsters I can't see many parents bringing their kids to a "Satanic Temple" for afterschool.

Well that and 'secular rationalism' or whatever you want to call it isn't exactly known for generating masses of volunteers.  They'll do their thing for a few months and die out most places.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Well that and 'secular rationalism' or whatever you want to call it isn't exactly known for generating masses of volunteers.

Some secular-rationalist ideologies most definitely do. Generalizing on this is as silly as generalizing on "theism".

[Antonio the Sixth]

And it perfectly aligns with Ayn Rand's philosophy, according to its founder

Further proof that Ayn Rand is the spawn of Satan.

[DC Al Fine]

Well that and 'secular rationalism' or whatever you want to call it isn't exactly known for generating masses of volunteers.

Some secular-rationalist ideologies most definitely do. Generalizing on this is as silly as generalizing on "theism".

Bad terminology on my part. I wasn't generalizing about secular people per se.

What I mean to say is that the sort of people who set up Satanic Temples to promote 'free thought' are unlikely to produce the man-hours necessary to sustain such a movement.

[Hnv1]

Satanism? is this early 90's black metal scene? Satanist don't "believe" in "Satan" anyway. In fact the only people who believe in Satan (as existing) are believers of God

[Tartarus Sauce]

I don't think anybody in this thread so far understands the intention behind these programs. 

While I think the atheists who are behind this would like for kids to have fun, reject superstition, and develop critical thinking skills, it's obviously mainly intended as a separation of church and state protest.

The point of ramming "Satanic Temple" programs down the government's throat is to illustrate how stupid it is that religiously affiliated after-school programs are allowed in schools, and is an attempt to end such incestuous practices/affiliations between church and state.

You can argue whether the programs are a clear violation of separation of church and state or not, of course.  I'd have to know more about them before I decided whether I support the protest, but in general I'm broadly sympathetic to efforts like this, though I don't like to alienate religious people in practice.

^This

The LeVayan Satanists tend to be assholes, but they're the perfect type of assholes for getting important points across. Some people in this country genuinely don't understand that freedom of religion isn't privilege of religion.

[Figueira]

I don't think anybody in this thread so far understands the intention behind these programs. 

While I think the atheists who are behind this would like for kids to have fun, reject superstition, and develop critical thinking skills, it's obviously mainly intended as a separation of church and state protest.

The point of ramming "Satanic Temple" programs down the government's throat is to illustrate how stupid it is that religiously affiliated after-school programs are allowed in schools, and is an attempt to end such incestuous practices/affiliations between church and state.

You can argue whether the programs are a clear violation of separation of church and state or not, of course.  I'd have to know more about them before I decided whether I support the protest, but in general I'm broadly sympathetic to efforts like this, though I don't like to alienate religious people in practice.

^This

The LeVayan Satanists tend to be assholes, but they're the perfect type of assholes for getting important points across. Some people in this country genuinely don't understand that freedom of religion isn't privilege of religion.

Yep. They're not trying to be edgy; they're making a valid protest to protect freedom of religion.

[afleitch]

Yep. They're not trying to be edgy; they're making a valid protest to protect freedom of religion.

Shhh. You're not allowed to advance arguments like that on here.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Yep. They're not trying to be edgy; they're making a valid protest to protect freedom of religion.

Shhh. You're not allowed to advance arguments like that on here.

Being edgy and protecting freedom of religion are hardly exclusive. Indeed, they often go together.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

honestly doesn't sound any worse than what they're likely learning the rest of the school day, or what they're likely to see on the tv or internet.   here's to hoping Christians don't make silly protests over this and instead offer something substantive in their response.