are primaries bad for prez politics?

[dougrhess]

Are primaries bad for choosing the best prez candidate? Some writers say they are bad for party strength. When did the primary system last undergo an overhaul?

[PBrunsel]

We used to select candidates via a Congrssional Caucus. This ended in 1824 due to outrage over the exclusion of the "regular man" from them. This undid the Campaign of William Crawford, who was nominated by "King Caucus".

From 1824-1912 the Conventions simply chose the nominee. The first major primary battle was the GOP Primary of 1912. There TR won all bu 3 primaries, but Taft won at the Convetion. So primaries were not so strong.

In 1948 the first fight to win orimaries occured at the Oregon GOP Primary. Governors Stassen of Minnestota dn Dewey of New York debated each other on the Communists Party of the USA, and Dewey won Oregon by a narrow margin. That was the first major fight for a primary.

In 1952 Senator Estes Kefauver defeated President Truman in New Hampshire and the modern presidential primary began.

 

[dougrhess]

From 1824-1912 the Conventions simply chose the nominee. The first major primary battle was the GOP Primary of 1912. There TR won all bu[t] 3 primaries, but Taft won at the Convetion. So primaries were not so strong.

So what did the primaries in 1912 do that TR's win didn't secure anything? Were they just like polls but w/o delegate selection?

[minionofmidas]

They existed only in a handful of states. They were a new idea at the time. The presidential primary didn't really break through as an idea until the 1960s.

[muon2]

Are primaries bad for choosing the best prez candidate?

I would say yes. I don't really see how New Hampshire and Iowa (I know it is a caucus) are representative of the entire nation but if a serious candidate loses both, he (or she) is almost certainly toast.  Primaries are not bad in and of themselves but need to be restructured to be more reflective of wider voter intention and support.

I agree that the current system could use an overhaul. Which direction to overhaul the system depends on your view of the role of parties in the process. The party role was greatly reduced by the long stretch of primaries that builds momentum toward a winner.

Personnaly, I think the parties and their members should play a role since the candidate will go forward carrying that party's name. A single national day for states to choose delegates, either by primary or caucus, would be an interesting alternative. It would certainly judge support for national candidates, but in races with a large field of significant contenders the convention would again play a real part in selection.  The leading candidate (without a majority) might have little chance to improve their vote totals enough to win the general election. The convention would be a mechanism to work that out.

[© tweed]

The idea of primaries is fine, but having two states decide the nominee isn't.  If we could have a nation primary day it would be great for deciding the nominee, other than the winner could have 25% of the vote which would be a problem in uniting a party.

[The Dowager Mod]

Primaries are good.
The way they are set up now is bad.

[MaC]

Primaries are good.
The way they are set up now is bad.

I would like primaries if they were actually held at the party's convention.  Either that or all 50 states vote on one day.

[jimrtex]

I agree that the current system could use an overhaul. Which direction to overhaul the system depends on your view of the role of parties in the process. The party role was greatly reduced by the long stretch of primaries that builds momentum toward a winner.

Personnaly, I think the parties and their members should play a role since the candidate will go forward carrying that party's name. A single national day for states to choose delegates, either by primary or caucus, would be an interesting alternative. It would certainly judge support for national candidates, but in races with a large field of significant contenders the convention would again play a real part in selection.  The leading candidate (without a majority) might have little chance to improve their vote totals enough to win the general election. The convention would be a mechanism to work that out.

Designate 8 candidates.

Divide the 436 CDs (treating DC as a CD) into 28 groups of 15 or 16. 

4 groups vote on each of the 7 primary dates: Fb 21, Mr 13, Ap 3, Ap 24, Ma 15, Je 5, Je 26 (3 weeks apart).

Each group will choose between one pair of the 8 candidates.  Any pair of candidates will be matched up in one group on one of the primary dates.   Candidates are determined by most group wins (highest percentage of CDs as tie breaker).  Top 2 contest national primary on July 24.

So a candidate only has to campaign in about 15-16 CDs in a 3 week period, and the voters only have to choose between 2 candidates.

[Speed of Sound]

all 50 states vote on one day.

i love this idea because by the time they get to PA, it's pretty much already decided

[Beet]

Are primaries bad for choosing the best prez candidate? Some writers say they are bad for party strength. When did the primary system last undergo an overhaul?

The last overhaul began with the Democrats' McGovern-Fraser reforms, which the Republicans quickly followed and which stemmed out of the 1968 disaster in Chicago. No doubt the Democrats blamed their precipitous collapse in 1968 on the fact that a candidate who had not won a single primary was duly nominated in Chicago. Ironically, the post-reform period has been even worse for them, while better for the Republicans.

The current system tends to weaken parties since they no longer control the nomination process. The media now plays a much bigger role therefore in selecting the candidate. This is supposed to lead to more 'telegenic' and charismatic candidates and fewer candidates who may lack charisma but have more experience and qualifications.

[dougrhess]

The problem with putting primaries, or many of them, all on one day is that the nation is so freaking huge that people need time to get a chance to see or hear the various candidates a couple times. I like the idea of having several primaries scattered around the nation held on one day and then rotating each term what states are on what days.