How Brazil’s Libertarian Movement Helped Bring Down a President

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

This brings a tear to my eye.  Great to see movements in the world moving toward individual freedom and de-centralization.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaRyvgbHCV4

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Upper-Middle class twentysomethinhs in a developing country always have the worst opinions.

(Of course, the effect of their triumphant overthrow of Dilma was the installation of a cronyistic coalition puppeted by Big Ag and evangelicals, but yeah congrats you really showed those stooppid poor people who selfishly wanted enough to educate their children rather than sending them to work)

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

Upper-Middle class twentysomethinhs in a developing country always have the worst opinions.

(Of course, the effect of their triumphant overthrow of Dilma was the installation of a cronyistic coalition puppeted by Big Ag and evangelicals, but yeah congrats you really showed those stooppid poor people who selfishly wanted enough to educate their children rather than sending them to work)

Almost 3 months to start a business? Worst recession in a long time? What is education without good employment? If I was poor; I'd want some work so I could raise myself or my family up vs state handouts (not to say education is a handout)  I think you can socialize a couple things effectively: healthcare and education and then leave the rest to be privatized.  By any means, it's not a complete victory yet there.  There is still work to be done.

[dead0man]

Upper-Middle class twentysomethinhs in a developing country always have the worst opinions.

(Of course, the effect of their triumphant overthrow of Dilma was the installation of a cronyistic coalition puppeted by Big Ag and evangelicals, but yeah congrats you really showed those stooppid poor people who selfishly wanted enough to educate their children rather than sending them to work)

your guy was corrupt and bad for the country (again), you can spin it to make you feel better and (of course, can't miss this important part) make fun of people who don't agree with you politically, but it doesn't really change that.  Yet another corrupt leftist leader in S.America.

[parochial boy]

Upper-Middle class twentysomethinhs in a developing country always have the worst opinions.

(Of course, the effect of their triumphant overthrow of Dilma was the installation of a cronyistic coalition puppeted by Big Ag and evangelicals, but yeah congrats you really showed those stooppid poor people who selfishly wanted enough to educate their children rather than sending them to work)

your guy was corrupt and bad for the country (again), you can spin it to make you feel better and (of course, can't miss this important part) make fun of people who don't agree with you politically, but it doesn't really change that.  Yet another corrupt leftist leader in S.America.

Michel Temer is also facing corruption allegations.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Upper-Middle class twentysomethinhs in a developing country always have the worst opinions.

(Of course, the effect of their triumphant overthrow of Dilma was the installation of a cronyistic coalition puppeted by Big Ag and evangelicals, but yeah congrats you really showed those stooppid poor people who selfishly wanted enough to educate their children rather than sending them to work)

your guy was corrupt and bad for the country (again), you can spin it to make you feel better and (of course, can't miss this important part) make fun of people who don't agree with you politically, but it doesn't really change that.  Yet another corrupt leftist leader in S.America.

Dude it's a developing country. Everybody is corrupt, especially whatever wackjob shock therapists these guys want to peddle in.(and may I emphasise the party that seems to have ended up with the most power is the PMDB). Dilma in many ways was a moron, but in many ways was great. Bolsa Familia, for instance is one of the best programs on earth and undoubtedly a net positive to the country.

Upper-Middle class twentysomethinhs in a developing country always have the worst opinions.

(Of course, the effect of their triumphant overthrow of Dilma was the installation of a cronyistic coalition puppeted by Big Ag and evangelicals, but yeah congrats you really showed those stooppid poor people who selfishly wanted enough to educate their children rather than sending them to work)

Almost 3 months to start a business? Worst recession in a long time? What is education without good employment? If I was poor; I'd want some work so I could raise myself or my family up vs state handouts (not to say education is a handout)  I think you can socialize a couple things effectively: healthcare and education and then leave the rest to be privatized.  By any means, it's not a complete victory yet there.  There is still work to be done.

The reason behind the recession is the crippling of the China bubble, nothing more nothing less. These people quite frankly don't understand the poverty of their own country if they think a little bit of bootstraps is all that is needed.

[Hash]

Brazil's libertarian movement? I'm pretty sure that's about 200-odd rich guys. If you think that they had any significant effect in what unfolded then you really have no clue about Brazilian politics and should stay away from them.

[buritobr]

Well, Movimento Brasil Livre, the "libertarian" movement, is not so libertarian. It supports "Escola Sem Partido", a far-right moviment which wants to establish censorship at schools in order to fight against "marxist indoctrination".
Some Brazilian "libertarians" think that the far-right congressman Jair Bolsonaro (the one who says that the military dictatorship 1964-1985 was good) is "not so bad".

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Bolsa Familia, for instance is one of the best programs on earth and undoubtedly a net positive to the country.

I was just reading about this on Wikipedia and I ran across the wonderful quote (from a monitor from the World Bank, of all institutions) 'In some cases adults will even work harder because having this safety net encourages them to assume greater risks in their activities'. Now that I've seen it framed this way, I'm astounded that more 'muh profit motive' 'muh competitiveness' types haven't considered this concept. Heck, didn't Juliet Rhys-Williams and Milton Friedman both support some sort of basic income for this reason?

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

Brazil's libertarian movement? I'm pretty sure that's about 200-odd rich guys. If you think that they had any significant effect in what unfolded then you really have no clue about Brazilian politics and should stay away from them.

Ok, Mr. Know-it-all. I'll bow to your superior knowledge and scurry away forthwith.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Upper-Middle class twentysomethinhs in a developing country always have the worst opinions.

(Of course, the effect of their triumphant overthrow of Dilma was the installation of a cronyistic coalition puppeted by Big Ag and evangelicals, but yeah congrats you really showed those stooppid poor people who selfishly wanted enough to educate their children rather than sending them to work)

This x999999999.

My only hope is that this blatant coup will reembolden PT voters and bring Lula triumphantly back to power in 2018.

[SWE]

Brazil's libertarian movement? I'm pretty sure that's about 200-odd rich guys. If you think that they had any significant effect in what unfolded then you really have no clue about Brazilian politics and should stay away from them.

Ok, Mr. Know-it-all. I'll bow to your superior knowledge and scurry away forthwith.

This is a good call. You don't know more than Hash.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

What a bunch of tools.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Brazil's libertarian movement? I'm pretty sure that's about 200-odd rich guys. If you think that they had any significant effect in what unfolded then you really have no clue about Brazilian politics and should stay away from them.

Ok, Mr. Know-it-all. I'll bow to your superior knowledge and scurry away forthwith.

This is a good call. You don't know more than Hash.

OMG yes.

If Hash has time to engage this dimwit, dis gona be gud.

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

Brazil's libertarian movement? I'm pretty sure that's about 200-odd rich guys. If you think that they had any significant effect in what unfolded then you really have no clue about Brazilian politics and should stay away from them.

Ok, Mr. Know-it-all. I'll bow to your superior knowledge and scurry away forthwith.

This is a good call. You don't know more than Hash.

I'm not saying he doesn't. He doesn't have to be condescending in his response though.

[Ⓐnarchy in the ☭☭☭P!]

Brazil's libertarian movement? I'm pretty sure that's about 200-odd rich guys. If you think that they had any significant effect in what unfolded then you really have no clue about Brazilian politics and should stay away from them.

"200-odd rich guys"

"200-odd rich guys"

"200-odd rich guys"

"200-odd rich guys"

I love the standard smears about "RICH PEOPLE" coming from idiot Americans and western Europeans, though. I suppose Solidarity was an undemocratic CIA plot, too.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I love the standard smears about "RICH PEOPLE" coming from idiot Americans and western Europeans, though. I suppose Solidarity was an undemocratic CIA plot, too.

Where do you see any comparision?

[Ⓐnarchy in the ☭☭☭P!]

I love the standard smears about "RICH PEOPLE" coming from idiot Americans and western Europeans, though. I suppose Solidarity was an undemocratic CIA plot, too.

Where do you see any comparision?

You know what the party line was regarding Solidarity? It's the same as the new "party line" towards antisocialists.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Oh cool, a bunch of people follow them on Facebook! Let's see them make any impact on the next election, lol.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I love the standard smears about "RICH PEOPLE" coming from idiot Americans and western Europeans, though. I suppose Solidarity was an undemocratic CIA plot, too.

Where do you see any comparision?

You know what the party line was regarding Solidarity? It's the same as the new "party line" towards antisocialists.

Your "point" being?

[Ⓐnarchy in the ☭☭☭P!]

I love the standard smears about "RICH PEOPLE" coming from idiot Americans and western Europeans, though. I suppose Solidarity was an undemocratic CIA plot, too.

Where do you see any comparision?

You know what the party line was regarding Solidarity? It's the same as the new "party line" towards antisocialists.

Your "point" being?

My point being that you're all being played for chumps. History will look back on you like people today look back on SB rats or Stalin's fans.

Oh cool, a bunch of people follow them on Facebook! Let's see them make any impact on the next election, lol.

I'll enjoy watching cocky socialists laugh just before they get smashed and cry about racism or what have you, just like the EP elections. We shall see.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I love the standard smears about "RICH PEOPLE" coming from idiot Americans and western Europeans, though. I suppose Solidarity was an undemocratic CIA plot, too.

Where do you see any comparision?

You know what the party line was regarding Solidarity? It's the same as the new "party line" towards antisocialists.

Your "point" being?

My point being that you're all being played for chumps. History will look back on you like people today look back on SB rats or Stalin's fans.

As someone whose family members were actually killed by SB I should be offended, but since you don't appear to know much about the subject, I'll just lol.

If you insist on comparing a broad anti-totalitarian movement, that at it's peak numbered 10 million people all the way from the left to the right, in the age where people wouldn't even dream of the World Wide Web, with the group we're been discussing here, then it's just hilarious.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Libertarians are about as relevant to the real world as Trotskyists and almost as annoying. (And like trots, they only grow relevant if they completely sell out and argue for populism, evangelical Christianity and hyper nationalism.)

[Ⓐnarchy in the ☭☭☭P!]

I love the standard smears about "RICH PEOPLE" coming from idiot Americans and western Europeans, though. I suppose Solidarity was an undemocratic CIA plot, too.

Where do you see any comparision?

You know what the party line was regarding Solidarity? It's the same as the new "party line" towards antisocialists.

Your "point" being?

My point being that you're all being played for chumps. History will look back on you like people today look back on SB rats or Stalin's fans.

As someone whose family members were actually killed by SB I should be offended, but since you don't appear to know much about the subject, I'll just lol.

If you insist on comparing a broad anti-totalitarian movement, that at it's peak numbered 10 million people all the way from the left to the right, in the age where people wouldn't even dream of the World Wide Web, with the group we're been discussing here, then it's just hilarious.

As if they simply popped into existence with 10 million members ready to go.

Serious change starts with a few radicals that are viciously slandered by the rest of society. To act as though such movements spontaneously had widespread support is not only comical, it degrades the efforts of the few who shouldered most of the risk and those who fought and died to pave the way and up to that point were painted as "fascists" or "reactionaries" or "a few bourgeois elite rebels". The crimes of the regimes they oppose tend to only come out in great numbers after they've won. Stalin was getting praise from Western intellectuals while slaves built his canals and dissidents were getting killed at Katyn.

Libertarians are about as relevant to the real world as Trotskyists and almost as annoying. (And like trots, they only grow relevant if they completely sell out and argue for populism, evangelical Christianity and hyper nationalism.)

Trotsky was a murderer. Nevertheless, Trotskyites had their time in the sun, and that time was the 20s. Libertarians too will have a time in the sun, but our time is not in the past, but in the future.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I'm sorry, I'm not going to be lectured at in morals by a poster who names himself after a Putin-loving holocaust denier with no libertarian credentials beyond using it as an advertising slogan.