Can one be a pro-choice social conservative?
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  Can one be a pro-choice social conservative?
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Author Topic: Can one be a pro-choice social conservative?  (Read 6531 times)
mencken
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« on: August 10, 2016, 04:30:41 PM »

I would think this describes my attitude toward social issues, but I am not sure if questioning such a fundamental position bars me from being a true Scotsman.
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Nathan
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« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2016, 04:36:05 PM »
« Edited: August 10, 2016, 10:30:30 PM by who, unfortunately, did. »

In places where lax abortion laws are an established part of the political and moral tradition, yes. (Japan, where pro-life politics is seen as a somewhat fringe rights issue primarily of interest to disabled people, would be an example of this.)
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2016, 05:06:40 PM »

I wouldn't say it's automatically no, but I would be surprised to hear someone describe themselves like that.
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Goldwater
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« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2016, 08:15:21 PM »

I guess. I mean, it's certainly possible to be pro-choice while having views on other "social issues" that aren't liberal or even libertarian, but I'm not sure how likely it is that such a person would describe themselves as "socially conservative".
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Boston Bread
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« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2016, 09:43:14 PM »

I wouldn't say it's automatically no, but I would be surprised to hear someone describe themselves like that.
Someone wouldn't describe themselves as a pro-choice social conservatives because their traditions don't care about abortion, hence they wouldn't use their position on abortion to describe themselves.
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Wells
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« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2016, 10:24:48 PM »

Yes, as long as they were sufficiently conservative on other social issues.
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Spark
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« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2016, 12:15:22 AM »
« Edited: August 11, 2016, 12:24:01 AM by Spark498 »

Yes, they can be pro choice on abortion, but conservative on gay marriage for example.
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Goldwater
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« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2016, 10:26:50 AM »

Yes, they can be pro choice on abortion, but conservative on gay marriage for example.

I disagree. I think that's just saying you're half asshole.

So is someone who opposes abortion and supports gay marriage also half asshole?
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2016, 11:41:58 AM »

Yes, they can be pro choice on abortion, but conservative on gay marriage for example.

I disagree. I think that's just saying you're half asshole.

So is someone who opposes abortion and supports gay marriage also half asshole?

No they are just half opposed to NeverAgains politics.
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NeverAgain
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« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2016, 03:49:16 PM »

Yes, they can be pro choice on abortion, but conservative on gay marriage for example.

I disagree. I think that's just saying you're half asshole.

So is someone who opposes abortion and supports gay marriage also half asshole?

No, that's about a third of an asshole. If we get the death penalty in there it gets in the 16ths which I am not a fan of.

Yes, they can be pro choice on abortion, but conservative on gay marriage for example.

I disagree. I think that's just saying you're half asshole.

So is someone who opposes abortion and supports gay marriage also half asshole?

No they are just half opposed to NeverAgains politics.

And that is the greatest sin of all.
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Taco Truck 🚚
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« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2016, 07:17:42 PM »

I would think this describes my attitude toward social issues, but I am not sure if questioning such a fundamental position bars me from being a true Scotsman.

Depends on how you define social conservative.  I'm pro-choice and I consider myself socially conservative.  I think there should be at least two categories of social conservative a mean one and a nice one.  The nice ones leave other people alone as long as those people leave them alone.  The mean ones want to run everyone's lives.

I don't like abortion but I realize clamping down on it does more harm than good.  I would much rather have good sex ed and free contraception.  There is nothing "conservative" about lying to teenagers and restricting their access to contraception.

Honestly we would have a much calmer well ordered society if better sex ed and free contraception was available.  I simply don't see how having a bunch of broke uneducated people spitting out babies in tumultuous relationships makes society more "conservative".
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2016, 04:44:13 PM »

Well using the mind-numbingly simplistic definition a lot on this site try to project onto issues like slavery and civil rights, you ARE a conservative for supporting Roe v. Wade because you're CONSERVING the 40+-year institution of letting a woman choose.  (LOL)
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Ebowed
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« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2016, 05:28:04 PM »

Yes.  Backing forced childbirth is an increasingly fringe issue.
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RI
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« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2016, 06:41:25 PM »

Yes.  Backing forced childbirth is an increasingly fringe issue.

lol
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TheDeadFlagBlues
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« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2016, 01:21:43 AM »

Yes.  Backing forced childbirth is an increasingly fringe issue.

Even Donald Trump has effectively disowned the forced childbirth movement. Sad!
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Nathan
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« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2016, 10:05:03 AM »

Yes.  Backing forced childbirth is an increasingly fringe issue.

Even Donald Trump has effectively disowned the forced childbirth movement. Sad!

Getting a secular nationalist to back away from a socially conservative position that he was obviously only pandering to in the first place is not a very impressive accomplishment.
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SATW
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« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2016, 06:19:00 PM »

Yes, one can be a cultural and social conservative while being moderate or liberal on a random one or two issues.

Abortion isn't an issue in Israel and the religious parties don't care to change the pro-abortion laws but they are still very socially right-wing.
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Person Man
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« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2016, 06:56:12 PM »
« Edited: August 30, 2016, 06:58:05 PM by Spicy Purrito »

I am sure there are many in places like Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Nevada and maybe even Arizona and the Bend, Cour dArlene, and Spokanne areas. Even Albuquerque shot down a ban on late term abortion and its only about as D as Kansas City.
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« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2016, 08:53:24 PM »

I mean sure, but who cares?
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Mopsus
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« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2016, 08:58:14 PM »

Honestly we would have a much calmer well ordered society if better sex ed and free contraception was available.  I simply don't see how having a bunch of broke uneducated people spitting out babies in tumultuous relationships makes society more "conservative".

Here's your answer (and I'm surprised that someone with the username "mencken" couldn't have come up with it on his own).
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ExtremeRepublican
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« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2016, 09:40:13 PM »

I know a lot more people who oppose abortion and support other socially liberal policies like gay marriage than the other way around.
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RFayette
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« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2016, 09:49:14 PM »

I know a lot more people who oppose abortion and support other socially liberal policies like gay marriage than the other way around.

This.  I suppose it's possible, and there was more of this in the past - think John Tower or Barry Goldwater - but there are few examples of it today.  I'm across-the-board socially conservative and personally consider abortion the most important litmus test (followed by religious liberty), but I'm sure there are those who identify as such who disagree with me on those issues.
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Mercenary
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« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2016, 12:03:01 AM »

If we are just talking about abortion...
Sure you could be. You could support traditional values in general but not care about the abortion issue. It makes sense if your social conservatism isn't morally based but rather based just on a respect or fondness of tradition.

If, however, your social views are morally based it seems kind of a weird mix of views to me.

Or if by pro-choice one means more in general you just support the legal right of people to make choices to determine how they live but that you are personally socially conservative and would like if others were and use your own way of living to try to influence others without resorting to laws then certainly one can be a pro-choice social conservative. In this instance, it is basically my own view.
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Tartarus Sauce
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« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2016, 12:21:44 PM »

I suppose one could be against the practice on a personal level but believe that it's not the government's decision to intervene in a woman's healthcare choices (i.e.: the stance most practicing Catholic Democrats are likely to take), but I question how many people who hold such views would actually label themselves as social conservatives. Social conservatism generally connotes extending ones ideal personal preferences on social issues into legislative policy.
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mencken
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« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2016, 11:43:02 PM »

Honestly we would have a much calmer well ordered society if better sex ed and free contraception was available.  I simply don't see how having a bunch of broke uneducated people spitting out babies in tumultuous relationships makes society more "conservative".

Here's your answer (and I'm surprised that someone with the username "mencken" couldn't have come up with it on his own).

Obviously I whole-heartedly agree with the logic. I just find it odd that there are scarcely any figures advocating such a position.
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