Can one be a pro-choice social conservative?

[TrumpCard]

I prefer to consider myself socially compassionate rather than socially conservative.  Abortion is understandable in the cases of incest, rape, damaged fetuses, and hazards to the mother's life.  This is a very sensitive issue and must be dealt with delicately.  Typically abortion is the social issue decider.  There are very few pro-choicers who are against gay marriage for example.

[nclib]

I know a lot more people who oppose abortion and support other socially liberal policies like gay marriage than the other way around.

Yeah, that makes sense. Especially if their opposition to abortion is based on the human rights of the fetus, rather than being anti-woman or anti-sexuality.

[Indy Texas]

You could be extremely opposed to out-of-wedlock births and single motherhood, to the point that you think allowing abortion is the preferable alternative.

Arguably, 21st century social conservatives have made the opposite choice: they've become more rabidly antiabortion at the cost of tacitly condoning single motherhood and illegitimacy.

[Person Man]

You could be extremely opposed to out-of-wedlock births and single motherhood, to the point that you think allowing abortion is the preferable alternative.

Arguably, 21st century social conservatives have made the opposite choice: they've become more rabidly antiabortion at the cost of tacitly condoning single motherhood and illegitimacy.

That probably is the reason for the consolidation of antiabortion sentiment in the most conservative states.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

To be serious about this, obviously you can. Abortion's contemporary alignment on the liberal-conservative axis was by no means inevitable. Prescott Bush, who was attacked in his early 1950's campaigns as a supporter of Planned Parenthood in Connecticut, I doubt had many particularly liberal instincts, in keeping with his background. I'd even argue that there would be conservative--though somewhat "ugly"--reasons for backing abortion: maintenance of stable populations and stable nuclear households, a crime and poverty-reduction measure, ensuring that the "surplus population" doesn't get too out of hand, and so on. One need not even use the tired "limited government" pleas in order to make this case. How many times do you hear random white kids joke about African-American families' perceived overabundance of children and tie it to reliance on welfare? This type of conservatism could have been especially prevalent if the GOP stuck to a "managerial" path. Population politics, which played at least some part of each president's policy from Johnson to Carter, seem to have utterly disappeared after 1980. Conversely, Jill Stein's comments on abortion might seem more mainstream in this world.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

To be serious about this, obviously you can. Abortion's contemporary alignment on the liberal-conservative axis was by no means inevitable. Prescott Bush, who was attacked in his early 1950's campaigns as a supporter of Planned Parenthood in Connecticut, I doubt had many particularly liberal instincts, in keeping with his background. I'd even argue that there would be conservative--though somewhat "ugly"--reasons for backing abortion: maintenance of stable populations and stable nuclear households, a crime and poverty-reduction measure, ensuring that the "surplus population" doesn't get too out of hand, and so on. One need not even use the tired "limited government" pleas in order to make this case. How many times do you hear random white kids joke about African-American families' perceived overabundance of children and tie it to reliance on welfare? This type of conservatism could have been especially prevalent if the GOP stuck to a "managerial" path. Population politics, which played at least some part of each president's policy from Johnson to Carter, seem to have utterly disappeared after 1980. Conversely, Jill Stein's comments on abortion might seem more mainstream in this world.

I haven't gone through and combed fifty-year-old policy statements to confirm or deny this, but I've been told that between, say, the sixties and the nineties, you see Ted Kennedy and Bob Dole 'evolving' on abortion in diametrically opposed directions.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Nathan, interesting. I'd only heard about Dole's stance on abortion starting with his 1974 re-election--which seemed to hinge on his opponent being pro-choice, though I'd heard mention that TK evolved.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Yes if they personally abhor it and find it unacceptable but don't believe it's the government job to deal with this issue ( small government conservative)

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Yes if they personally abhor it and find it unacceptable but don't believe it's the government job to deal with this issue ( small government conservative)

These tropes are getting tired.

[Goldwater]

Yes if they personally abhor it and find it unacceptable but don't believe it's the government job to deal with this issue ( small government conservative)

Isn't "small government" conservatism inherently at odds with social conservatism?

[Devout Centrist]

Yes if they personally abhor it and find it unacceptable but don't believe it's the government job to deal with this issue ( small government conservative)

Isn't "small government" conservatism inherently at odds with social conservatism?

Not if you plug your ears hard enough.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Yes if they personally abhor it and find it unacceptable but don't believe it's the government job to deal with this issue ( small government conservative)

Isn't "small government" conservatism inherently at odds with social conservatism?

Nope cause small government conservatism would result in the same goals as social conservatives.  Small government conservatives would deal with abortion by making it seem unacceptable socially and stop subsidizing it ( cause most private political  organizations would be defunded by the Feds)

[Goldwater]

Yes if they personally abhor it and find it unacceptable but don't believe it's the government job to deal with this issue ( small government conservative)

Isn't "small government" conservatism inherently at odds with social conservatism?

Nope cause small government conservatism would result in the same goals as social conservatives.  Small government conservatives would deal with abortion by making it seem unacceptable socially and stop subsidizing it ( cause most private political  organizations would be defunded by the Feds)

That sounds more like a small government argument against abortion, rather than a socially conservative argument in favor of legal abortion.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Yes if they personally abhor it and find it unacceptable but don't believe it's the government job to deal with this issue ( small government conservative)

Isn't "small government" conservatism inherently at odds with social conservatism?

Nope cause small government conservatism would result in the same goals as social conservatives.  Small government conservatives would deal with abortion by making it seem unacceptable socially and stop subsidizing it ( cause most private political  organizations would be defunded by the Feds)

That sounds more like a small government argument against abortion, rather than a socially conservative argument in favor of legal abortion.

Well i think its still a pro choice argument as the feds arent banning it

[Tartarus Sauce]

Yes if they personally abhor it and find it unacceptable but don't believe it's the government job to deal with this issue ( small government conservative)

Isn't "small government" conservatism inherently at odds with social conservatism?

The Republican Party apparently didn't get the memo after several decades of tying the two together.

[DC Al Fine]

To be serious about this, obviously you can. Abortion's contemporary alignment on the liberal-conservative axis was by no means inevitable. Prescott Bush, who was attacked in his early 1950's campaigns as a supporter of Planned Parenthood in Connecticut, I doubt had many particularly liberal instincts, in keeping with his background. I'd even argue that there would be conservative--though somewhat "ugly"--reasons for backing abortion: maintenance of stable populations and stable nuclear households, a crime and poverty-reduction measure, ensuring that the "surplus population" doesn't get too out of hand, and so on. One need not even use the tired "limited government" pleas in order to make this case. How many times do you hear random white kids joke about African-American families' perceived overabundance of children and tie it to reliance on welfare? This type of conservatism could have been especially prevalent if the GOP stuck to a "managerial" path. Population politics, which played at least some part of each president's policy from Johnson to Carter, seem to have utterly disappeared after 1980. Conversely, Jill Stein's comments on abortion might seem more mainstream in this world.

Interesting. If the Trump realignment sticks we could very well see diversion along these lines again, only with the parties' roles flipped around.

[progressive85]

I never understood how abortion and gay marriage were ever connected.  One is about ending life and the other is about celebrating life.  You can be the gayest person on Earth and be pro-life.  If they ever find out a way, like in the year 2500 or something, to tell the likelihood of a baby being gay based on their brain, that could lead to abortions on a massive scale, and if that happens the gay community of that time is going to view abortion as a great evil.

[Beet]

Abortion rights are about celebrating women's right to bodily autonomy.

Can you be a social conservative and pro choice. No. But you can definitely be social conservative and pro abortion. If you're a eugenicist. If not for Roe v. Wade, the modern GOP would not have a chance in elections, and I'm not referring to pro life single issuers.

[Goldwater]

Abortion rights are about celebrating women's right to bodily autonomy.

Can you be a social conservative and pro choice. No. But you can definitely be social conservative and pro abortion. If you're a eugenicist. If not for Roe v. Wade, the modern GOP would not have a chance in elections, and I'm not referring to pro life single issuers.

[MarkD]

I never understood how abortion and gay marriage were ever connected.  One is about ending life and the other is about celebrating life.  You can be the gayest person on Earth and be pro-life.  If they ever find out a way, like in the year 2500 or something, to tell the likelihood of a baby being gay based on their brain, that could lead to abortions on a massive scale, and if that happens the gay community of that time is going to view abortion as a great evil.

They're "connected" because of interpretations of the Constitution -- the SCOTUS's decision in Roe v. Wade stated that the right to get an abortion is part of the "right to privacy." The concept of "privacy" is that "it's nobody else's business," and therefore legislatures should not legislate against it.
Neither issue was correctly decided by the SCOTUS, in my opinion.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

If not for Roe v. Wade, the modern GOP would not have a chance in elections, and I'm not referring to pro life single issuers.

It seems like you mean something very dark by this, but I can't quite put my finger on what.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

If not for Roe v. Wade, the modern GOP would not have a chance in elections, and I'm not referring to pro life single issuers.

It seems like you mean something very dark by this, but I can't quite put my finger on what.

He means that there would be more minorities, groups that the GOP struggles with.  But, the political climate would be so different in such a world, we could never know.  It would all be worth it, though.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

[Self-congratulatory post about the 1990's drop in crime, marked by incredibly unawareness as to its implications, if true]

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I used to be one.  I"m far more libertarian in my social views as I've aged.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

T o m i  L a h r e n

She's garbage, though.