If you faced being drafted

[DC Al Fine]

I definitely would serve if drafted, no question about it.  Heck, right now, if I have a hard time getting a job after college, I'd probably try to enlist in Officer Candidate School for the Navy or Air Force.  I've never hard any ethical qualms with respect to military service.

I'd probably try to volunteer as an officer. Actually one of the guys in my accounting classes was in the military and became a logistics officer. Apparently they like having CPA's in those roles. It seems like a relatively safe way to spend a war.

Doesn't that basically mean the army discriminates by socio-economic status? People wealthy enough to afford the right kind of studies get the safe desk jobs, while those who can't have to face death and injury daily.

I don't think its that simple. It's not like the safe jobs don't have grunts in them (who do you think is loading the trucks in the logistics department?) and the guys getting shot at have junior officers getting shot at too.

Yes accountants and engineers and so on get off easy, but you have to weigh that against the guy with a BA who's virtually guaranteed to wind up being an on the ground officer.

[Heisenberg]

I would proudly serve (patriotic).

[dead0man]

I definitely would serve if drafted, no question about it.  Heck, right now, if I have a hard time getting a job after college, I'd probably try to enlist in Officer Candidate School for the Navy or Air Force.  I've never hard any ethical qualms with respect to military service.

I'd probably try to volunteer as an officer. Actually one of the guys in my accounting classes was in the military and became a logistics officer. Apparently they like having CPA's in those roles. It seems like a relatively safe way to spend a war.

Doesn't that basically mean the army discriminates by socio-economic status? People wealthy enough to afford the right kind of studies get the safe desk jobs, while those who can't have to face death and injury daily.

I don't think its that simple. It's not like the safe jobs don't have grunts in them (who do you think is loading the trucks in the logistics department?) and the guys getting shot at have junior officers getting shot at too.

Yes accountants and engineers and so on get off easy, but you have to weigh that against the guy with a BA who's virtually guaranteed to wind up being an on the ground officer.

The Army (and the rest of the DoD) put many thousands of poor people through college every year...and then guarantee them a good paying job, with an early and good retirement.  Or they can do their time (I think it's 8 years, but there are variables) and take their degree out into the real world if they want.  Many of them go into REMF jobs.  And many higher on the "socio-economic" ladder go into infantry or flying fighters.  The military doesn't give two sh**ts what your socio-economic status is before service.  (well, you can't get in with mountains of debt, but you don't have to be poor to have mountains of debt)

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

dead0, you obviously know better about this than most of us, so maybe you can answer this: why is it, then, that there are countless veterans living on the streets and why do twenty die by suicide every day?

[dead0man]

dead0, you obviously know better about this than most of us, so maybe you can answer this: why is it, then, that there are countless veterans living on the streets and why do twenty die by suicide every day?

(I'm going to assume this is an honest question and not loaded or a sh**tty "gotcha!")

bunch of reasons, a lot of it falls on the shoulders of the VA.  They just suck.  Bloated bureaucracy from hell.  If you (not specifically you) care about the vets, you should be for getting rid of the VA and letting vets just go to regular doctors, like regular people do, and then have the Feds cover the bill.  Sure, it SEEMS like if you had your own hospitals and doctors it would be cheaper, and hey, maybe it is cheaper than my idea, but who the hell cares if it's cheaper if it's a failure to 90% (guess, not fact) of the vets that try to use it?  We say we care about our vets, the actions of the voters and the politicians we vote for says otherwise.

Or I'd be up for other ideas too, the current system sucks and I don't think it can be cleaned up.

(not that it's failed me specifically, I don't use them, but I know friends and family that do, and to a man the VA has just sucked...nearly killed my cousin's husband)


and PTSD is a bitch, even with a perfect system we'd still have our men and women killing themselves.  War is hell, even more so if it's a messed up, no obvious bad guys in uniform to fight, randomly blowing up while driving down the street, no end in sight, no idea even how to possibly end it bitch of a thing.  I've been keen on putting more robots instead meatsacks in the field, but even those guys have issues post action (the operators, not the robots).  Which I suppose makes sense if you think about it.

And all of this is why our politicians should be very careful where they send them, and only do so if it's actually needed AND likely to help the situation in the long run.  Which is why active duty (and vets) don't really like Hillary or Trump (heh, just like the American voter).

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

No, it wasn't a "gotcha" question.  I've read some on the subject, but I never really heard any ideas or alternatives from someone who is a veteran or has any first-hand experience with the VA.

It's very unfortunate how the system has failed so many veterans in this country.  Even some private charities (or, at least, the Wounded Warrior Project comes to mind) do, in fact, very little to help the people they purport to serve.  (And this also partly informs my own foreign policy views, on which I view war as an absolute last resort and troops-on-the-ground acceptable under very narrow circumstances.)

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

Object and if that failed, I'd happily go to jail over it.

[Helsinkian]

I was drafted and served 12 months in the Finnish military when I was 19-20. And I am still a reservist, so it's possible that I might be called back for exercises at any time.

In Finland we have universal male conscription. While there is an alternative, non-military service, most men rather go to the military. If a person is a so called "total objector", who refuses both military and non-military service, he will be sentenced to a prison term, though in recent times that has been more of a "house arrest" sort of thing with a monitoring bracelet. These cases are relatively rare.

Polls show continued support for conscription with about 70 percent of the population in favour of it. I didn't mind the experience. It actually helped me deal with my social anxiety issues.

[Tender Branson]

I was drafted and served 12 months in the Finnish military when I was 19-20. And I am still a reservist, so it's possible that I might be called back for exercises at any time.

In Finland we have universal male conscription. While there is an alternative, non-military service, most men rather go to the military. If a person is a so called "total objector", who refuses both military and non-military service, he will be sentenced to a prison term, though in recent times that has been more of a "house arrest" sort of thing with a monitoring bracelet. These cases are relatively rare.

Polls show continued support for conscription with about 70 percent of the population in favour of it. I did'nt mind the experience. It actually helped me deal with my social anxiety issues.

You say that "most men" choose the military service in Finland.

Is there also a trend like here in Austria, that more drafted men choose civil service now ?

About 20-30 years ago, about 80-90% of men also chose the military here but according to the last data from 2014 the requests for civil service have almost overtaken the requests for military service (the military still has a 45-40 advantage, with the rest being found unfit to serve for medical reasons).

20-30 years ago it was seen as "uncool" to choose the civil service option, nowadays it's uncool to choose the military ...

[Helsinkian]

^ Looking up the statistics, it actually surprises me that the number of men choosing civilian service is so low; here are the statistics from the 2015 draft:

• 76.14% of the men born in 1997 went to military service
• 1.68% chose civilian service
• 8.84% were permanently exempted for medical reasons
• 7.91% were temporarily exempted for medical reasons (ordered to be evaluated for military suitability again at a later date)
• 3.14% were exempted because they held double citizenship and resided abroad

(Source in Finnish)

Edit: That number does not include those who first go to the military but decide in the first few days that they want to switch over to civilian service. But even including them, the percentage of men choosing civilian service only rises to about seven percent.

A couple of decades ago, one could not simply choose the civilian service; if you announced that you wanted it for reasons of conscience, you would have been put in front of a panel that would have determined if your objection was genuinely based on reasons of conscience and not on other factors. After that was removed, the number of people choosing civilian service increased but apparently it has gone down again or at least has been steady.

Civilian service lasts 12 months, while military service may last 6, 9 or 12 months depending on the type of training that you receive. I was given an NCO training so my service lasted 12 months.

Additions to the exemptions: Jehova's witnesses are entirely exempt from serving, and so are the inhabitants of the autonomous, demilitarised region of Åland Islands.

Addition to civilian service: as the draft does not apply to women, they are not required to complete civilian service either. However, there is an exception: if a woman volunteers for military service but gets second thoughts and decides to quit after 45 days of service or more, she is required to complete the 12 months of civilian service instead.

[Tender Branson]

I think here it also has to do with political leanings of the 18-year old males and education:

For example, I have a hard time seeing how a 18-year old male Green or SPÖ-voter with high school diploma will choose the military instead of civil service.

On the other hand, most FPÖ- and ÖVP-voting young males will likely opt for the military.

Besides, the civil service and serving in the social organisations like the Red Cross, Caritas, etc. in general has a very good image here.

Therefore the roughly 50-50 split here.

[Bojack Horseman]

Screw "conscientious objector," Canada here I come!

[Antonio the Sixth]

If it was under President Trump I would probably just go to war. Why would I resist the opportunity to fight for my country against those that undermine our freedoms?

"I'll fight for my country and protect our freedoms only if the guy I like is in charge."

Very noble indeed.

[Blair]

Eh being a skinny gay university educated 19 year old would probably get me sent to either some Governmental Job or a desk job in one of the various branches of the armed forces. I'd probably go for a Navy or Air Force Job

I really wouldn't have any objection to it.

There's a clear class basis in my view purely because if you've been to University/have the potenial you've got a lot of doors to go through- sure you could pick the Paras or something deadly but equally you could get a cushy Job, where as from what I've heard from Officers they get the rather less able to become Infantry.

[Senator-elect Spark]

If it was under President Trump I would probably just go to war. Why would I resist the opportunity to fight for my country against those that undermine our freedoms?

"I'll fight for my country and protect our freedoms only if the guy I like is in charge."

Very noble indeed.

I surely wouldn't like if a person that doesn't respect the lives of our own citizens was in charge.

[Antonio the Sixth]

If it was under President Trump I would probably just go to war. Why would I resist the opportunity to fight for my country against those that undermine our freedoms?

"I'll fight for my country and protect our freedoms only if the guy I like is in charge."

Very noble indeed.

I surely wouldn't like if a person that doesn't respect the lives of our own citizens was in charge.

Yes, because Drumpf has such a great respect for servicemen and veterans.

All you're saying here is that you're OK serving your country if it's led by someone from your political camp. That's not patriotism. It's despicable.

[Leinad]

Find the papers that prove my Asperger's diagnosis.

[RFayette]

Find the papers that prove my Asperger's diagnosis.

Haha, glad I never got diagnosed with any of that stuff as I know it's an insta-disqualifier in the military.  I've always had considered the military as a backup in case I don't get a job out of college.  Would be a shame if it weren't available to me.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

Find the papers that prove my Asperger's diagnosis.

Haha, glad I never got diagnosed with any of that stuff as I know it's an insta-disqualifier in the military.  I've always had considered the military as a backup in case I don't get a job out of college.  Would be a shame if it weren't available to me.

Asperger's is an instant disqualifier, really?  Yeah, the military wouldn't touch me with a ten-foot pole.  I'd think it would be a lot more suspect to trust a person with clinical depression with a military rifle, though.

[RFayette]

Find the papers that prove my Asperger's diagnosis.

Haha, glad I never got diagnosed with any of that stuff as I know it's an insta-disqualifier in the military.  I've always had considered the military as a backup in case I don't get a job out of college.  Would be a shame if it weren't available to me.

Asperger's is an instant disqualifier, really?  Yeah, the military wouldn't touch me with a ten-foot pole.  I'd think it would be a lot more suspect to trust a person with clinical depression with a military rifle, though.

I am having a hard time finding official documentation concerning the military's policy about Asperger's, but it's pretty much a universal consensus on forums (when the question is asked) that revealing one's Asperger's diagnosis is an instant disqualifier (or any autism spectrum disorder) with respect to military service.  Since it's likely to get asked, it effectively bars someone with such a diagnosis from joining the military, which is too bad.   My kindergarten teacher apparently thought I had autism, but fortunately I was never taken to a psychologist for a diagnosis; hence, for all intents and purposes, I don't have it.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Good to know I wouldn't have to leave!

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Having been fit for service, it would be very diffult for me, personally, to refuse if there was a real national emergency.

[dead0man]

I am having a hard time finding official documentation concerning the military's policy about Asperger's, but it's pretty much a universal consensus on forums (when the question is asked) that revealing one's Asperger's diagnosis is an instant disqualifier (or any autism spectrum disorder) with respect to military service.  Since it's likely to get asked, it effectively bars someone with such a diagnosis from joining the military, which is too bad.   My kindergarten teacher apparently thought I had autism, but fortunately I was never taken to a psychologist for a diagnosis; hence, for all intents and purposes, I don't have it.

The military has gotten very picky.  You could probably get in, especially if you had a skill we lacked, but it would be a large red flag and it wouldn't take very many more smaller red flags to prevent you from enlisting.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Why would Aspergers negatively affect someone in the military anyway? It might actually be a positive depending on the role.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Why would Aspergers negatively affect someone in the military anyway? It might actually be a positive depending on the role.

Speaking for myself, I know for a fact that I'd be a TERRIBLE fit for the military and would be utterly useless for anything in addition to undergoing a deep personal trauma. That said, I've never really been able to distinguish the aspects of my personality due to Asperger's from those that have nothing to do with it, so I can't tell if that's true for other.