Mother and son in love in N.M. will go to jail to defend their relationship

[Antonio the Sixth]

It's wrong and shouldn't be legal, but hand-wringing about birth defects isn't the right argument here.

[Antonio the Sixth]

What is wrong with some people here?

The idea that there could possibly be anything vaguely resempling genuine consent between a parent and their child flies in the face of basic notions of psychology and sociology that I really thought were supposed to be common knowledge. I have no idea if you people actually don't know these things or if you're being willfully ignorant because "who am I to judge?" is the hip and trendy response to give to issues like this.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I am (and always have been) against considering "morality", a notion I thoroughly oppose but whose effects I do not particularly abhor in respect to efficacy, in the making of law. Such consideration would be  tantamount to legislating based off of religious doctrine, in the face of that for which America stands.

The relationship itself is questionable but not inherently dangerous. The line is clearly vaginal sex with insertion of the penis. Anything short of that, in my opinion, should be well legal. However, it is neither the government's duty nor right to legislate exactly what actions may be taken in the bedroom.

Considering all of this, I conclude that such a relationship should be legal, and were there to be a pregnancy, abortion should be mandatory.

obama pls ban, mods pls drone

[Antonio the Sixth]

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obama pls ban, mods pls drone

What's wrong with that? Surely we're just talking about a bunch of cells here, no?

Oh for f**k's sake, don't start playing gotchas with this. There are just as many reasons to find this post absolutely horrifying from a pro-choice perspective as there are from a pro-life perspective, and you know it.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Well, of course, "pro-choice" is ultimately a euphemism. When you are vigorously opposed to any notion that the yet-to-be-born have any kind of personhood (see: NARAL's reaction to a Super Bowl ad), then the issue of "choice" becomes irrelevant sind you're dealing with an action with no substantial impact. Control over women's bodies, on the other hand... in such a (moral?) framework there's a salient issue there.

Are you being deliberately obtuse, or do you seriously not conceive that some people might value the psychological well-being of the woman (and, thereby, how she herself perceives and understands her pregnancy)? No, surely there has to be some sinister amoral intent behind the pro-choice movement.

To Nathan's characterization, let me clarify that while I believe personhood and rights ought to begin well after conception, I also believe at least some of them must begin well before birth. I realize that " where to draw the line" is a terribly tricky issue and a weakness of the pro-choice side, but I have philosophical reasons to believe that drawing the line somewhere (the point when the fetus is capable of feeling pain is the one I find most appealing personally, although it's not an easy call) is preferable to taking either of the two extreme positions.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Practically nothing can be considered an 'objective opinion'.

Well duh. That's quite literally an oxymoron.

Believing in objective morality doesn't mean being certain that your opinion on what is right and wrong perfectly corresponds to what is objectively right and wrong.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Practically nothing can be considered an 'objective opinion'.

Well duh. That's quite literally an oxymoron.

Believing in objective morality doesn't mean being certain that your opinion on what is right and wrong perfectly corresponds to what is objectively right and wrong.

So do you believe in a knowable right and wrong? My own personal opinion is that such a thing probably does exist, but has been imperfectly revealed to humanity, meaning that, obviously, we all have our own reflections on what is moral and what isn't. However, if you believe in a knowable right and wrong surely you would ensure that your moral beliefs correspond exactly to that objective stance (not a gotcha, just curious).

I don't think any finite individual could ever have perfect knowledge of right and wrong, no. However, I think all of us, if we sincerely seek it out, can go a long way toward gaining such knowledge, and that we have the obligation to do our best in this regard.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Well this discussion keeps getting better and better, doesn't it?