Do Prisons Without Air-Conditioning Constitute 'Cruel and Unusual Punishment'?

[Antonio the Sixth]

The existence of prisons is a testament to this failure of humanity's ability to self-correct. They're a necessary evil, but they should never, ever be mistaken for a positive good, and alternatives should be sought whenever possible.

And yet you say concerning the death penalty:

Never in any circumstance.

For truly incorrigible criminals, the death penalty is theoretically a potential solution, tho in practice, one that is unlikely to be widely applied.

There is no such thing as a truly incorrigible criminal. Only a lack of time, will, and ability to make people see the error of their ways.

[dead0man]

LOL NO. If schools without air conditioning are constitutional, so are prisons without air conditioning.

indeed this.  My HS didn't have AC in one of the buildings, nor did one of my grade schools.  I guess 7 year old kids in 1980 were just tougher than prisoners are in 2016.

Yeah especially when you were at school 24 hrs a day from mid May to mid September!

Yeah, 'cause it never gets hot in St Louis in early June!

There is no such thing as a truly incorrigible criminal. Only a lack of time, will, and ability to make people see the error of their ways.

There are mental illnesses that make that impossible for some people.  There are many criminals that are incapable of seeing the error of their ways.  Complete narcissists and those unable to feel any empathy spring to mind.

[Antonio the Sixth]

There is no such thing as a truly incorrigible criminal. Only a lack of time, will, and ability to make people see the error of their ways.

There are mental illnesses that make that impossible for some people.  There are many criminals that are incapable of seeing the error of their ways.  Complete narcissists and those unable to feel any empathy spring to mind.

I'm pretty sure most mental illness can either be treated or at least dealt with in a way that allows people to avoid these situations. I admit I don't know much about narcissism and APD, but I really hope there would be at least a theoretical solution that doesn't involve locking up people for life. It's definitely unsettling because I think the ability to feel empathy is a fundamental part of what makes us human, and many things break down when you relax this assumption.

[Green Line]

The existence of prisons is a testament to this failure of humanity's ability to self-correct. They're a necessary evil, but they should never, ever be mistaken for a positive good, and alternatives should be sought whenever possible.

And yet you say concerning the death penalty:

Never in any circumstance.

For truly incorrigible criminals, the death penalty is theoretically a potential solution, tho in practice, one that is unlikely to be widely applied.

There is no such thing as a truly incorrigible criminal. Only a lack of time, will, and ability to make people see the error of their ways.

It's not societys job to rehabilitate every criminal.  Youve only decided to bestow this responsibility on everyone apparently.  We all only have one life to live.  Some people choose to use their lives to harm others, and it's our job to make sure they can't ever harm anyone else again.  Thats what prisons are for.  We lock up the violent people that way us and our children can live our lives without fear.

[angus]

Do Prisons Without Air-Conditioning Constitute 'Cruel and Unusual Punishment'?

Cruel, but not unusual.  I just looked it up.  According to the Florida department of correction website, most in Florida are not climate-controlled.  Texas and Louisiana make the same claim.  Virginia claims that about half its prisons have air conditioners.  It seems to be the norm in the US that prisons do not have cooling systems.  Moreover, many do not have adequate heating systems.

There are much crueler aspects of the US prison system than a lack of temperature control, but I do agree that we should not freeze them or cook them to death.  Cooling and heating systems are expensive, but if we're going to cage such a huge chunk of our population--the US has about 4% of the world's people and about 22% of the world's prisoners--then we should be willing to bear the costs of doing so in a humane manner.  The last three weeks here have been brutal, and I bet it's worse on the Gulf Coast.  We won't turn criminals into citizens by treating them rudely.

[Mercenary]

Uh no.
How can not having something that not too long ago didn't even exist somehow be cruel and unusual punishment? Not being as comfortable as modern conveniences allow is not the same as cruel and unusual punishment. Now, I don't necessarily mind if a jail has air conditioning, perhaps it results in better behavior by the inmates and less problems occurring in the prison and thus has good reason for existing, but the lack of it is by no means some horrible action against the prisoners.

[Kushahontas]

Do Prisons Without Air-Conditioning Constitute 'Cruel and Unusual Punishment'?

Cruel, but not unusual.  I just looked it up.  According to the Florida department of correction website, most in Florida are not climate-controlled.  Texas and Louisiana make the same claim.  Virginia claims that about half its prisons have air conditioners.  It seems to be the norm in the US that prisons do not have cooling systems.  Moreover, many do not have adequate heating systems.

There are much crueler aspects of the US prison system than a lack of temperature control, but I do agree that we should not freeze them or cook them to death.  Cooling and heating systems are expensive, but if we're going to cage such a huge chunk of our population--the US has about 4% of the world's people and about 22% of the world's prisoners--then we should be willing to bear the costs of doing so in a humane manner.  The last three weeks here have been brutal, and I bet it's worse on the Gulf Coast.  We won't turn criminals into citizens by treating them rudely.

[DavidB.]

Now, I don't necessarily mind if a jail has air conditioning, perhaps it results in better behavior by the inmates and less problems occurring in the prison and thus has good reason for existing, but the lack of it is by no means some horrible action against the prisoners.

Air conditioning being used as an incentive to behave better? Pathetic.

[TrumpCard]

Prisoners should be treated with air conditioning and the starving children in Africa get what?

[Kingpoleon]

Prisoners should be treated with air conditioning and the starving children in Africa get what?

Dependency on America!

[Murica!]

Prisoners should be treated with air conditioning and the starving children in Africa get what?

There are problems in Africa, therefore there are none here!

[TrumpCard]

Prisoners should be treated with air conditioning and the starving children in Africa get what?

Dependency on America!

I don't see many of them with access to air conditioning when they need it the most.  In fact there's a good number of people I know without air conditioning.  Let's not waste our resources on it.  After all according to John Kerry refrigerators and air conditioners are a bigger threat than ISIS.  As for myself, I really hope my air conditioner doesn't bomb anyone.  Plus many of these prisoners are in there for hurting women.  I'm sure Democrats don't want to upset the "women's rights" movement now do they?  Actually the 8th amendment of cruel and unusual punishment refers to punishments that exceed the crime committed.  An example of this would be 25 years for a parking ticket.  Nothing about air conditioning is mentioned in our constitution.  There are plenty of ways to reform prison sentencing though.  We need to be offering optional jobs skills classes so prisoners can maintain and improve on their job skills while incarcerated.  Decriminalization of drugs in exchange for rehabilitation in most cases is needed too.  If they don't want to touch up on their job skills to become more productive members of society, there's always labor camps to help companies cut down on labor costs.

[TrumpCard]

Prisoners should be treated with air conditioning and the starving children in Africa get what?

There are problems in Africa, therefore there are none here!

If you think prisoners having air conditioning is among our top concerns then be my guest and campaign on this issue.  Good luck.

[Taco Truck 🚚]

Uh no.
How can not having something that not too long ago didn't even exist somehow be cruel and unusual punishment?

Yeah it is strange when inmates have painful infections we give them antibiotics, which were discovered decades after air conditioning.  I wonder why we don't let them just die in misery vs giving them $10 worth of antibiotics.  After all antibiotics are a lot newer and technologically advanced invention than simple air conditioning.

Now, I don't necessarily mind if a jail has air conditioning, perhaps it results in better behavior by the inmates and less problems occurring in the prison and thus has good reason for existing, but the lack of it is by no means some horrible action against the prisoners.

Air conditioning being used as an incentive to behave better? Pathetic.

You may want to look up the definition of "incentive".

Prisoners should be treated with air conditioning and the starving children in Africa get what?

We give prisoners mattresses too.  Plenty of kids in Africa don't have mattresses.  So basically if there is something one kid in Africa doesn't have then anybody locked up for having pot on their person should under no circumstance have that item either?  Wow, no healthcare for any prisoner.

Guys none of these bizarre analogies or comparisons make sense.  With any type of objective scrutiny your logic just falls apart.

[SWE]

Prisoners should be treated with air conditioning and the starving children in Africa get what?

There are problems in Africa, therefore there are none here!

I don't want to hear any whining from those starving kids an Africa when there's people getting their heads cut off in Syria.

[Person Man]

This is kind of a question I refuse to answer. Prisoners aren't entitled to be comfortable. However, they are entitled to live. If not having AC (or heat) puts them at risk of any harm that they weren't sentenced to, then they are obligated to having it. That would be "cruel and unusual".

[Antonio the Sixth]

Prisoners should be treated with air conditioning and the starving children in Africa get what?

There are problems in Africa, therefore there are none here!

I don't want to hear any whining from those starving kids an Africa when there's people getting their heads cut off in Syria.

I love how the same people who say that are also those who whine to no end about how unfair it is that "job creators" pay so much in taxes.

[Simfan34]

Not if they're well ventilated.

This is kind of a question I refuse to answer. Prisoners aren't entitled to be comfortable. However, they are entitled to live. If not having AC (or heat) puts them at risk of any harm that they weren't sentenced to, then they are obligated to having it. That would be "cruel and unusual".

This is reasonable.

[Hatman 🍁]

What about the jail guards? Don't they deserve AC?

[jamestroll]

I would say if the prison is located in Phoenix Arizona... I would certainly say yes.

[angus]

What about the jail guards? Don't they deserve AC?

What?!  They're about as sadistic as people can be.  I actually know a jail guard--not very well, but I've known him since the sixth grade--and he's a prototypical prison guard.  Vengeful, narrowminded, and stubborn.

Anyway, the guards choose to be there.  Unlike the prisoners, who are caged like zoo animals against their will, the guards are free to leave and seek alternative employment.  

Don't get me wrong.  I'm not for unsafe or unwholesome working conditions, but if we're going to have this argument logically and compassionately, let's remember that we are discussing the rights and the dignity of the humans who are caged against their will.  

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

What about the jail guards? Don't they deserve AC?

What?!  They're about as sadistic as people can be.  I actually know a jail guard--not very well, but I've known him since the sixth grade--and he's a prototypical prison guard.  Vengeful, narrowminded, and stubborn.

Anyway, the guards choose to be there.  Unlike the prisoners, who are caged like zoo animals against their will, the guards are free to leave and seek alternative employment.

Maybe it's different where you are, but prison/jail guards around here are often stuck between a rock and a hard place when it comes to economic freedom.  It's one of the few above minimum-wage level jobs with benefits that are available to semi-skilled workers, but between understaffing and other difficult working conditions, it's also one of the most stressful jobs out there.  So yeah, they could leave, but unless they've mapped out a plan to get training to be a skilled worker in another industry, they'd be take a huge hit economically.

[angus]

Okay, I wasn't saying that guards should be treated unfairly, and they have the right to organize for collective bargaining and to walk out (although Reagan pointed out that this was technically illegal for federal employees and only waited 48 hours to fire eleven thousand striking air traffic controllers in 1981.) 

I think my point was that it's worth arguing the topic on its own merits, which involves the inhumanity of cruel treatment of the many people we incarcerate.  No matter how you spin the difficulties faced by the guards, they are indeed free to leave.  Inmates are not, and they are the subject of this thread.  I recognize that many of them are incorrigible thugs, rapists, and murders, but many are not.  Recently the Obama administration initiated a program to release people who have served at least ten years for crimes which would not be sentenced so harshly for today.  It's a clear admission of the failure of harsh treatment of citizens by the government. 

True, there was a time when sufficient heating and cooling was a luxury, but we don't think of it that way today.  Moreover, it is hotter now that it was when we were young.  NASA has reported that 2016 is on track to the be the hottest year on record, approaching a +2°F anomaly.  Before that, 2015 was the hottest year on record, with a +1.62°F anomaly.  Before that, 2014 was (+1.33°F).  The good news is that El Niño will dissipate in early 2017 leaving it cooler.  Good news for those who survive this summer at least.

[RINO Tom]

I'm inclined to say yes.

However, it's a slippery slope.  For example, them not having a sleep number bed?  So ing what?  I don't buy this Norwegian prison requirement bullshlt whatsoever.

[Bojack Horseman]

In warm places, yes, and in general US prisons should be much more safe and livable. It shouldn't be like the Hilton, but it shouldn't be the hell it currently is either.

Agreed 100%. I think there should be more of a two-tiered prison system. Crimes where the prisoner can be rehabilitated are sentenced to Prison 1, which is focused on rehabilitation. Education, drug/alcohol treatment, vocational training, counseling, and life skills would be the focus for these people. Violent criminals would go to Prison 2, where they're just animals kept in cages.