Do Prisons Without Air-Conditioning Constitute 'Cruel and Unusual Punishment'?

[Frodo]

In U.S. Jails, a Constitutional Clash Over Air-Conditioning

By ALAN BLINDER
AUG. 15, 2016

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

LOL NO. If schools without air conditioning are constitutional, so are prisons without air conditioning.

[Murica!]

Prisons in general are "Cruel and Unusual Punishment."

[Goldwater]

Prisons in general are "Cruel and Unusual Punishment."

This too.

lol

[Mr. Reactionary]

Prisons in general are "Cruel and Unusual Punishment."

This too.

lol

[Santander]

Prisons in general are "Cruel and Unusual Punishment."

This too.

lol

[Murica!]

Prisons in general are "Cruel and Unusual Punishment."

This too.

why is a liberal agreeing with me help how do i get it off

[Antonio the Sixth]

Prisons in general are "Cruel and Unusual Punishment."

Not quite, but anything short of Norwegian-style prisons is.

[dead0man]

LOL NO. If schools without air conditioning are constitutional, so are prisons without air conditioning.

indeed this.  My HS didn't have AC in one of the buildings, nor did one of my grade schools.  I guess 7 year old kids in 1980 were just tougher than prisoners are in 2016.

[Tiger front]

No, because it isn't constitutional right.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Prisons in general are "Cruel and Unusual Punishment."

Not quite, but anything short of Norwegian-style prisons is.

Prison isn't daycare, it's a prison.

[Murica!]

Prisons in general are "Cruel and Unusual Punishment."

Not quite, but anything short of Norwegian-style prisons is.

Prison isn't daycare, it's a prison.

That's not an argument.

[Wells]

No. They're in jail because they committed a crime. Why should we meet their temperature demands?

[Ebowed]

No. They're in jail because they committed a crime. Why should we meet their temperature demands?

Treat prisoners like dirt and then wonder why the recidivism rate is so high.

This is the sort of issue that really brings out the worst in people, frankly.

[Associate Justice PiT]

Prisons in general are "Cruel and Unusual Punishment."

Not quite, but anything short of Norwegian-style prisons is.

Prison isn't daycare, it's a prison.

That's not an argument.

     The point is that these people have committed serious offenses that have led to them losing some of the rights that people are normally accorded. It's not meant to be a walk in the park.

[Antonio the Sixth]

No, but it's an inhumane way to house people in most* of the continental United States.

*There are some places in the United States that are temperate enough that no one other than people with serious health conditions or lack of access to outdoor spaces should need air conditioning. These include all of Upstate New York, for example. Unfortunately, most modern construction ignores passive ventilation and does not even attempt to adapt itself to the conditions of the local environment. Anything built in this fashion needs to be air conditioned as a matter of public health, no matter where it is built.

In my experience (which obviously isn't representative, being almost entirely from the Southwest), 90% of the use of air conditioning in the US is unnecessary, wasteful, harmful to the environment, and actually makes me feel worse than I'd be if the building was left to its natural temperature.

I'm not saying AC isn't necessary in the cases relevant here, just felt like I should point this out.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Prisons in general are "Cruel and Unusual Punishment."

Not quite, but anything short of Norwegian-style prisons is.

Prison isn't daycare, it's a prison.

That's not an argument.

     The point is that these people have committed serious offenses that have led to them losing some of the rights that people are normally accorded. It's not meant to be a walk in the park.

One would think being deprived of one of the three fundamental rights recognized in the Declaration of Independence should be punishment enough of its own, without adding further torments into the mix.

[Virginiá]

LOL NO. If schools without air conditioning are constitutional, so are prisons without air conditioning.

indeed this.  My HS didn't have AC in one of the buildings, nor did one of my grade schools.  I guess 7 year old kids in 1980 were just tougher than prisoners are in 2016.

But prisoners can't change prisons. Plus that is kind of a weak comparison in other regards - you weren't living inside your school 24 hours a day, 7 days a week in densely packed quarters. It can get seriously hot in some prisons, which alone can introduce safety concerns. Some people close to their breaking point get violent.

I would also argue that your school should have had AC, but then again, you're older, correct? Maybe it wasn't feasible or possible then, but that doesn't make it right.

     The point is that these people have committed serious offenses that have led to them losing some of the rights that people are normally accorded. It's not meant to be a walk in the park.

Just because they are prisoners doesn't mean it's OK to treat them like dirt. Time and time again, I see issues of mistreatment or other bs regarding prisoners come up and again see certain folks just shrug it off and say "well they are prisoners after all!", as if that justifies anything and everything.

This is why recidivism is such a problem in America. Many people have such a cavalier attitude towards convicts/felons, as if they are sub-human or something.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

LOL NO. If schools without air conditioning are constitutional, so are prisons without air conditioning.

indeed this.  My HS didn't have AC in one of the buildings, nor did one of my grade schools.  I guess 7 year old kids in 1980 were just tougher than prisoners are in 2016.

But prisoners can't change prisons. Plus that is kind of a weak comparison in other regards - you weren't living inside your school 24 hours a day, 7 days a week in densely packed quarters. It can get seriously hot in some prisons, which alone can introduce safety concerns. Some people close to their breaking point get violent.

I would also argue that your school should have had AC, but then again, you're older, correct? Maybe it wasn't feasible or possible then, but that doesn't make it right.

     The point is that these people have committed serious offenses that have led to them losing some of the rights that people are normally accorded. It's not meant to be a walk in the park.

Just because they are prisoners doesn't mean it's OK to treat them like dirt. Time and time again, I see issues of mistreatment or other bs regarding prisoners come up and again see certain folks just shrug it off and say "well they are prisoners after all!", as if that justifies anything and everything.

This is why recidivism is such a problem in America. Many people have such a cavalier attitude towards convicts/felons, as if they are sub-human or something.

Re: Schools without AC - they still exist. In fact, the only elementary/middle schools in MN's capital city that have AC right now, in 2016, are the ones that host summer programs, which is like a fifth of them.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

LOL NO. If schools without air conditioning are constitutional, so are prisons without air conditioning.

indeed this.  My HS didn't have AC in one of the buildings, nor did one of my grade schools.  I guess 7 year old kids in 1980 were just tougher than prisoners are in 2016.

But prisoners can't change prisons. Plus that is kind of a weak comparison in other regards - you weren't living inside your school 24 hours a day, 7 days a week in densely packed quarters. It can get seriously hot in some prisons, which alone can introduce safety concerns. Some people close to their breaking point get violent.

I would also argue that your school should have had AC, but then again, you're older, correct? Maybe it wasn't feasible or possible then, but that doesn't make it right.

     The point is that these people have committed serious offenses that have led to them losing some of the rights that people are normally accorded. It's not meant to be a walk in the park.

Just because they are prisoners doesn't mean it's OK to treat them like dirt. Time and time again, I see issues of mistreatment or other bs regarding prisoners come up and again see certain folks just shrug it off and say "well they are prisoners after all!", as if that justifies anything and everything.

This is why recidivism is such a problem in America. Many people have such a cavalier attitude towards convicts/felons, as if they are sub-human or something.

Re: Schools without AC - they still exist. In fact, the only elementary/middle schools in MN's capital city that have AC right now, in 2016, are the ones that host summer programs, which is like a fifth of them.

In Minnesota? Why the hell would you need aircon there?

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

LOL NO. If schools without air conditioning are constitutional, so are prisons without air conditioning.

indeed this.  My HS didn't have AC in one of the buildings, nor did one of my grade schools.  I guess 7 year old kids in 1980 were just tougher than prisoners are in 2016.

But prisoners can't change prisons. Plus that is kind of a weak comparison in other regards - you weren't living inside your school 24 hours a day, 7 days a week in densely packed quarters. It can get seriously hot in some prisons, which alone can introduce safety concerns. Some people close to their breaking point get violent.

I would also argue that your school should have had AC, but then again, you're older, correct? Maybe it wasn't feasible or possible then, but that doesn't make it right.

     The point is that these people have committed serious offenses that have led to them losing some of the rights that people are normally accorded. It's not meant to be a walk in the park.

Just because they are prisoners doesn't mean it's OK to treat them like dirt. Time and time again, I see issues of mistreatment or other bs regarding prisoners come up and again see certain folks just shrug it off and say "well they are prisoners after all!", as if that justifies anything and everything.

This is why recidivism is such a problem in America. Many people have such a cavalier attitude towards convicts/felons, as if they are sub-human or something.

Re: Schools without AC - they still exist. In fact, the only elementary/middle schools in MN's capital city that have AC right now, in 2016, are the ones that host summer programs, which is like a fifth of them.

In Minnesota? Why the hell would you need aircon there?

September/Early October can still be quite hot. April/May/June are total wildcards.

[TDAS04]

Not sure about air conditioning.  It depends on the extent of suffering that would cause, and maybe it would depend on the heat in the location.

There should be minimal standards of how prisoners are treated.  Prisons shouldn't be a "walk in the park" and prisoners who commit crime should lose some rights for the time of incarceration, but that doesn't mean that prisoners shouldn't have any rights.

I'm sure some would call my position "moderate hero" but you can punish criminals and still have limits on the extent of doing so.  Someone commits a crime, so inflict a punishment that fits that crime.  Just because a shoplifter may be incarcerated for a little while doesn't mean you get to rip his finger nails out.  It seems that many on this forum fall into either of 2 extreme positions:  Sentence Hitler to some time at a Norwegian resort from some of our more lefty posters, or execute 14-year-olds from our more conservative ones.  I've been called a "moderate hero" for supporting a more moderate criminal justice system, but we can punish criminals without punishing them disproportionately.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Not automatically.  It is unfortunate that designing for passive cooling and heating is not as important as it once was, but with proper ventilation, even down here in the humid heat of South Carolina it is possible to do okay without AC.  The main problem is for someone who is habituated to continual AC and is then suddenly deprived, or for those with weakened bodily functions from age and/or disease.

[IceSpear]

Prisons in general are "Cruel and Unusual Punishment."

This too.

What exactly would your guys' alternative be?

[dead0man]

Just to be clear, I'm not saying (and I"m guessing most people voting no feel the same way) we should take AC out of existing prisons designed with AC in place, that would be silly.  Or even that new prisons built in hot places shouldn't have them.  I (we're) saying that we don't care if prisoners are mildly discomforted because of heat.  Not dangerously so, maybe not the old or sick ones.   But a healthy 25 year old dude can handle a couple of warm months if it saves the state I live in $2.5M/year.  


Being hot because it's hot outside is not a cruel and unusual punishment.