Opinion on 'burkini' ban?
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 29, 2024, 05:23:04 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  Political Debate (Moderator: Torie)
  Opinion on 'burkini' ban?
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4
Author Topic: Opinion on 'burkini' ban?  (Read 5714 times)
Kingpoleon
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,144
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2016, 09:16:43 PM »

France is taking unprecedented steps in the face of a crisis that is spiralling out of control.

Dear Green Line,

Please shut up.

Regards,

A French citizen

Dear Antonio,

No.

Dear Green Line,

How do Burkini's help terrorism? Oh wait it's just a way for politicians to gain points among Islamophobic voters.

Stop or be banned.

Thanks,
Dave
Logged
MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,380


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2016, 06:21:16 AM »

I've always been for a secular government, but this stuff is just a mirror image of what fundamentalist governments are doing.


And making anybody wearing anything against their will is not acceptable. I don't see there's any disagreement on that.
Logged
DavidB.
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,612
Israel


Political Matrix
E: 0.58, S: 4.26


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2016, 11:33:35 AM »

A non-issue, and a bad idea to ban it.
Logged
All Along The Watchtower
Progressive Realist
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,426
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2016, 07:25:49 PM »

The browns Muslims are an existential threat to the French value/right of freedom of religion, so clearly the French should take away the Muslims' right to freedom of religion. Can't imagine how that could ever (further) alienate and marginalize a deeply religious minority community that is already alienated and marginalized (and literally ostracized, in many cases) from French society!
Logged
🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸
shua
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 25,665
Nepal


Political Matrix
E: 1.29, S: -0.70

WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2016, 10:32:11 PM »

The browns Muslims are an existential threat to the French value/right of freedom of religion, so clearly the French should take away the Muslims' right to freedom of religion. Can't imagine how that could ever (further) alienate and marginalize a deeply religious minority community that is already alienated and marginalized (and literally ostracized, in many cases) from French society!

I don't think anyone is claiming Muslims are a threat to any French freedom of religion (which would imply that is something that actually exists).
Logged
Indy Texas
independentTX
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,258
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.52, S: -3.48

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2016, 12:08:26 AM »

So what if someone wants to wear a swimsuit like that for non-Islamic reasons? (Such as being really afraid of getting sunburned and wanting as much skin to be covered up as possible?)

The only logical argument I can think of for this ban would be in the case of public pools. Looking at photos, it looks like most of the "burkinis" have loose fabric that could ostensibly get caught in a pool filter and cause the wearer to potentially drown. But that logic doesn't hold up when it comes to public beaches.
Logged
Green Line
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,584
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #31 on: August 20, 2016, 12:10:42 AM »

So what if someone wants to wear a swimsuit like that for non-Islamic reasons? (Such as being really afraid of getting sunburned and wanting as much skin to be covered up as possible?)

The only logical argument I can think of for this ban would be in the case of public pools. Looking at photos, it looks like most of the "burkinis" have loose fabric that could ostensibly get caught in a pool filter and cause the wearer to potentially drown. But that logic doesn't hold up when it comes to public beaches.

Hygene issues.  Those things are probably filthy.
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,964
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2016, 04:23:34 AM »

The browns Muslims are an existential threat to the French value/right of freedom of religion, so clearly the French should take away the Muslims' right to freedom of religion. Can't imagine how that could ever (further) alienate and marginalize a deeply religious minority community that is already alienated and marginalized (and literally ostracized, in many cases) from French society!

I don't think anyone is claiming Muslims are a threat to any French freedom of religion (which would imply that is something that actually exists).

Religion really doesn't have all that much to do with this. At the end of the day, it's just plain old xenophobia.
Logged
President Johnson
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 28,592
Germany


Political Matrix
E: -3.23, S: -4.70


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2016, 06:12:49 AM »

I lean towards support. It is a symbol of discrimination of women, although some may say that they wear it voluntarily (what is hard to believe). If it is forbidden in islamic countries to enter mosques with short skirts, why should this be tolerated? While westerners have to play by the rules in these countries, muslims have to play by western rules. What they do in private is their own concern, but not in public.
Logged
Tetro Kornbluth
Gully Foyle
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,846
Ireland, Republic of


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2016, 08:33:16 AM »

I see the male champions of Womenhood are out in force wanting the state to mandate what women can and can't wear.
Logged
FEMA Camp Administrator
Cathcon
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,284
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2016, 09:18:27 AM »

Sounds hot.
Logged
World politics is up Schmitt creek
Nathan
Moderators
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 34,251


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #36 on: August 20, 2016, 09:33:56 AM »

If it is forbidden in islamic countries to enter mosques with short skirts, why should this be tolerated?

It's forbidden in the Vatican, too; does this then mean the French government should rediscover its anticlerical tradition?
Logged
🦀🎂🦀🎂
CrabCake
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 19,192
Kiribati


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #37 on: August 20, 2016, 12:18:55 PM »

So what if someone wants to wear a swimsuit like that for non-Islamic reasons? (Such as being really afraid of getting sunburned and wanting as much skin to be covered up as possible?)

The only logical argument I can think of for this ban would be in the case of public pools. Looking at photos, it looks like most of the "burkinis" have loose fabric that could ostensibly get caught in a pool filter and cause the wearer to potentially drown. But that logic doesn't hold up when it comes to public beaches.

Hygene issues.  Those things are probably filthy.

Hey, they're just trying to integrate into the local culture:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2219163/One-29-French-people-dont-shower-WEEK--13-wash-hands-using-toilet.html
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,964
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2016, 12:32:09 PM »

So what if someone wants to wear a swimsuit like that for non-Islamic reasons? (Such as being really afraid of getting sunburned and wanting as much skin to be covered up as possible?)

The only logical argument I can think of for this ban would be in the case of public pools. Looking at photos, it looks like most of the "burkinis" have loose fabric that could ostensibly get caught in a pool filter and cause the wearer to potentially drown. But that logic doesn't hold up when it comes to public beaches.

Hygene issues.  Those things are probably filthy.

Hey, they're just trying to integrate into the local culture:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2219163/One-29-French-people-dont-shower-WEEK--13-wash-hands-using-toilet.html

Crabcake, I get that you're rightfully pissed off at France for this whole nonsense, but seriously, the Daily Fail??
Logged
RI
realisticidealist
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,717


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #39 on: August 20, 2016, 06:21:51 PM »

Horrible, horrible ban. They're really not allowing people to wear this:


Really? WTF?

What's next, banning wearing a shirt while swimming? Banning wetsuits that cover your head?
Logged
TJ in Oregon
TJ in Cleve
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,952
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.13, S: 6.96

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #40 on: August 20, 2016, 06:33:23 PM »

Horrible, horrible ban. They're really not allowing people to wear this:


Really? WTF?

What's next, banning wearing a shirt while swimming? Banning wetsuits that cover your head?

That's just bizarre. Perhaps someone will get arrested for falling off a boat while dressed. These sorts of things sound totally crazy as an American where the thought of the government making public restrictions on clothing beyond "you must cover certain listed body parts" is entirely alien.
Logged
ElectionsGuy
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 21,107
United States


Political Matrix
E: 7.10, S: -7.65

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #41 on: August 20, 2016, 08:05:18 PM »

Ironic because its supposed to be against oppression but banning a type of clothing is exactly that. If people choose to wear them and they're comfortable with it, that's fine. What it instead does is piss Muslim women off who want to wear it and sends a message to them that the west is uncomfortable with Islam. Its leftist intolerance.
Logged
Goldwater
Republitarian
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 18,064
United States


Political Matrix
E: 1.55, S: -4.52

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #42 on: August 20, 2016, 09:38:49 PM »

Ironic because its supposed to be against oppression but banning a type of clothing is exactly that. If people choose to wear them and they're comfortable with it, that's fine. What it instead does is piss Muslim women off who want to wear it and sends a message to them that the west is uncomfortable with Islam. Its leftist intolerance.

Is it? Seems like these types of things usually get the most support from right wing secular nationalist types. 
Logged
ElectionsGuy
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 21,107
United States


Political Matrix
E: 7.10, S: -7.65

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #43 on: August 20, 2016, 11:30:24 PM »

Ironic because its supposed to be against oppression but banning a type of clothing is exactly that. If people choose to wear them and they're comfortable with it, that's fine. What it instead does is piss Muslim women off who want to wear it and sends a message to them that the west is uncomfortable with Islam. Its leftist intolerance.

Is it? Seems like these types of things usually get the most support from right wing secular nationalist types. 

Most people who would be for it are for progressive reasons, progress. The burka is a traditional outfit, therefore I would think conservatives would not be the ones to want to ban it. Not saying all leftists support banning it, and I'm sure you'll find right wingers supporting it for different wrong reasons too.

Gary Johnson ran into some trouble right at the start of his campaign by supporting this. Its clear that his (former) point of view like many others is that it was too repressive and restrictive. He's a social liberal, but he correctly reversed himself to make it libertarian.
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,964
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #44 on: August 21, 2016, 04:37:29 AM »

Ironic because its supposed to be against oppression but banning a type of clothing is exactly that. If people choose to wear them and they're comfortable with it, that's fine. What it instead does is piss Muslim women off who want to wear it and sends a message to them that the west is uncomfortable with Islam. Its leftist intolerance.

Is it? Seems like these types of things usually get the most support from right wing secular nationalist types. 

Most people who would be for it are for progressive reasons, progress. The burka is a traditional outfit, therefore I would think conservatives would not be the ones to want to ban it. Not saying all leftists support banning it, and I'm sure you'll find right wingers supporting it for different wrong reasons too.

No. The real reason for it is Islamophobia. While there are left-wingers who support it, they only do so in an (obviously failed) attempt to chase after the votes of the right and far-right, who are the real proponents of these policies. The idea that this has anything to do with social-liberalism (or even with "laïcité") is ludicrous.
Logged
they don't love you like i love you
BRTD
Atlas Prophet
*****
Posts: 112,714
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.50, S: -6.67

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #45 on: August 21, 2016, 12:39:18 PM »

Couldn't they just wear something like this instead?



I mean anything who thinks that's too revealing (I've seen women preaching at church wearing less than that) has some major issues...
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,964
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #46 on: August 21, 2016, 12:45:42 PM »

BRTD, you just had to chime in just when I was trying to defend social liberalism by making it clear we weren't the ones pushing for a ban, didn't you?


(I've seen women preaching at church wearing less than that)

Of course you have. Tongue
Logged
they don't love you like i love you
BRTD
Atlas Prophet
*****
Posts: 112,714
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.50, S: -6.67

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #47 on: August 21, 2016, 12:55:51 PM »

Tony, wouldn't it be a tad hypocritical for liberals who mock Hasidic Jews and some fundamentalist Christians who insist that women wear ridiculously overcovering outfits for swimming (because yes that does happen, yes I've seen liberal sites throw fits about it before, and yes, what they encourage is closer to the "burkini" than what I posted above, aside from lack of a head covering), and yet give Muslims a pass for it?
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,964
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #48 on: August 21, 2016, 12:59:53 PM »

As I've said before, this is a very good example of why everything that's immoral, dumb, or socially harmful shouldn't necessarily be illegal.
Logged
they don't love you like i love you
BRTD
Atlas Prophet
*****
Posts: 112,714
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.50, S: -6.67

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #49 on: August 21, 2016, 01:03:18 PM »

As I've said before, this is a very good example of why everything that's immoral, dumb, or socially harmful shouldn't necessarily be illegal.

Lol dude you don't even support the full legalization of marijuana.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.066 seconds with 12 queries.