Opinion on 'burkini' ban?

[Associate Justice PiT]

Also, if the burkini as such a manifestation of Islamic oppression to women, why has it suddenly become so popular among non-Muslim women worldwide? And don't f**king say "the patriarchy."

This is a good example of how 'patriarchy' has been misused to the point of meaninglessness. Putting frat boys and guys who won't let their daughters be educated together in the same box as if they have the same worldview is ridiculous.

This is like somebody saying the word 'precipitation' is meaningless because snow and rain are different

I dispute the analogy. There are sufficient differences in worldview between male dominated libertines and actual patriarchs to indicate they are different ideologies. Put another way, Barack Obama and Rosa Luxemberg might agree on two or three things and they are both opposed by the right, but calling them both socialists is just silly.

     The social justice left has constructed a perfect bogeyman for themselves. They have defined "patriarchy" in such broad terms that they can identify almost any aspect of any culture as being resultant of the patriarchy, with little hope of escape from this evil god. The problem is that it is not a useful way of breaking down the world.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Also, if the burkini as such a manifestation of Islamic oppression to women, why has it suddenly become so popular among non-Muslim women worldwide? And don't f**king say "the patriarchy."

This is a good example of how 'patriarchy' has been misused to the point of meaninglessness. Putting frat boys and guys who won't let their daughters be educated together in the same box as if they have the same worldview is ridiculous.

This is a point I've wanted to make for a while, but have only ever expressed once.

[Antonio the Sixth]

We can all agree that modern Sweden is less patriarchal than Saudi Arabia. The point of the concept isn't to lump 99.9% of societies that ever existed in the history of humanity together. Rather, it's to bring attention to a series of specific attitudes that exist in all those society and to their root cause.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

We can all agree that modern Sweden is less patriarchal than Saudi Arabia. The point of the concept isn't to lump 99.9% of societies that ever existed in the history of humanity together. Rather, it's to bring attention to a series of specific attitudes that exist in all those society and to their root cause.

The relevant question is whether all these diverse societies have the same root cause for not being a feminist utopia.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Shouldn't this be moved to individual politics?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Shouldn't this be moved to individual politics?

Still not sure what the point of the individual politics/political debate split is, tbh.

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

I actually think postcolonial feminism would agree with Shua here over Antonio. I remember studying Chandra Mohanty and this precise topic came up -- the burqa was seen as a sign of female solidarity during the first Iranian revolution whereas a lot of people equate its use during that time with the post-revolutionary mandate. The point of course is that approaching the problem with a universal assessment of patriarchy doesn't really work.

[Panda Express]

The solution is simple


Monday, Wednesday, Friday - Wearing the burkini is banned
Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday - Wearing the burkini is no problemo
Sunday - Everyone must wear the burkini

[Storebought]

Overdone and ludicrous -- meaning both the burkini itself, and the ban on them.

That said, western women once wore full-bodied bathing attire at the beach until very recently, at least the 1950s or so. Can a compromise be found so that Muslim women can wear those older style bathing suits and not bring negative attention on themselves from the police?

It sounds like you're arguing that dressing conservatively is okay as long as the conservative clothing was designed by white people.

Not at all, but that women who don't really desire being ogled at on the beach have the option of adapting/updating the old fashioned styles to something that both the secular and the religious French can still relate to. Cultural adoption and diffusion and all that.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

I sincerely hope that anybody who was supporting this on 'liberal values' grounds has been or is open to being disabused of that by what ought to be the viscerally horrifying image of groups of armed men descending upon women in public and forcing them to take their clothes off. You know--for feminism!

[RI]

I sincerely hope that anybody who was supporting this on 'liberal values' grounds has been or is open to being disabused of that by what ought to be the viscerally horrifying image of groups of armed men descending upon women in public and forcing them to take their clothes off. You know--for feminism!

Pretty sure this has already happened.

Fortunately, the Council of State has overturned the ban.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

I sincerely hope that anybody who was supporting this on 'liberal values' grounds has been or is open to being disabused of that by what ought to be the viscerally horrifying image of groups of armed men descending upon women in public and forcing them to take their clothes off. You know--for feminism!

Pretty sure this has already happened.

Yeah, that's what I was referring to.

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Good.

[Antonio the Sixth]

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Good.

Yeah, that's great news. I had little hope in that respect.

Valls said earlier that the government had no intention of legislating, and I don't think the government would want to get involved in this issue too directly, so this should put an end to this whole mess (for a year at least).

[JohnathanOHughes]

Its  tough issue, burkini's are neccessary to wear for their religion, yet its also a security issue, I stand with security, while its upsetting that we have to do this, its necessary.....a necessary wrong I would call it.

[SteveRogers]

Its  tough issue, burkini's are neccessary to wear for their religion, yet its also a security issue, I stand with security, while its upsetting that we have to do this, its necessary.....a necessary wrong I would call it.

Security issue? K.