Gawker shutting down
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Author Topic: Gawker shutting down  (Read 3302 times)
Slander and/or Libel
Figs
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« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2016, 01:43:55 PM »

Nobody who's troubled by this is wallowing in pity for Gawker. I actually think it's a lot more troubling that Gawker is unsympathetic, because it's made a bunch of people who would otherwise be up in arms about Thiel's actions into his tacit supporters.
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Goldwater
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« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2016, 01:57:02 PM »

RIP HP
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2016, 01:59:55 PM »

Nobody who's troubled by this is wallowing in pity for Gawker.

See that's not actually true is it? Besides while I agree that there are troubling aspects to what Thiel did, that was equally true of Gawker's actions. They tried to use the fundamental economic inequalities built into the US legal system as well, it's just that it blew up in their faces.
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Figs
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« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2016, 02:00:53 PM »

Nobody who's troubled by this is wallowing in pity for Gawker.

See that's not actually true is it? Besides while I agree that there are troubling aspects to what Thiel did, that was equally true of Gawker's actions. They tried to use the fundamental economic inequalities built into the US legal system as well, it's just that it blew up in their faces.

I honestly have no idea what you mean, nor do I see where anybody is wallowing in pity for Gawker.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2016, 06:28:14 PM »

If you had been paying any attention at all to this mess then you would know exactly to what I referred.
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Atlas Has Shrugged
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« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2016, 07:34:39 PM »

The reason Thiel had a grudge against Gawker is perfectly valid, they outed him without his consent. And they have outed plenty of other gays for years quite irresponsibly. Yeah, good riddance.

I think Peter Thiel's sexual orientation is very much a public matter when he supports the Republican Party, one of the most virulently anti-gay parties in the West.

Exposing the hypocrisy of the rich and powerful is what journalists have always done.
Yes, so virulently anti-gay that Peter Thiel spoke at their convention and received a massive standing ovation when he took on the said party's stance on LBGT issues to their (read, Cruz delegates) faces.
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BRTD
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« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2016, 11:17:45 PM »

The reason Thiel had a grudge against Gawker is perfectly valid, they outed him without his consent. And they have outed plenty of other gays for years quite irresponsibly. Yeah, good riddance.

I think Peter Thiel's sexual orientation is very much a public matter when he supports the Republican Party, one of the most virulently anti-gay parties in the West.

Exposing the hypocrisy of the rich and powerful is what journalists have always done.

You're acting like Thiel is the ONLY one: http://www.vox.com/2015/7/17/8992155/gawker-outing-gay-people
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Indy Texas
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« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2016, 11:57:48 PM »

The reason Thiel had a grudge against Gawker is perfectly valid, they outed him without his consent. And they have outed plenty of other gays for years quite irresponsibly. Yeah, good riddance.

I think Peter Thiel's sexual orientation is very much a public matter when he supports the Republican Party, one of the most virulently anti-gay parties in the West.

Exposing the hypocrisy of the rich and powerful is what journalists have always done.
Yes, so virulently anti-gay that Peter Thiel spoke at their convention and received a massive standing ovation when he took on the said party's stance on LBGT issues to their (read, Cruz delegates) faces.

Peter Thiel is perfectly fine with being treated like a second-class citizen regarding his sexuality as long as he gets to pay as little tax as humanly possible. Peter Thiel sees himself as a One Percenter/Maker/John Galt first and foremost. Of course the Republicans will tolerate that kind of gay person - he's rich and white and male, so three out of four ain't bad.
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Badger
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« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2016, 12:06:41 AM »

Of course I'm not going to shed a tear over some trashy internet tabloid, but what this story says about the power of American plutocracy is not exactly reassuring.
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BRTD
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« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2016, 12:59:57 AM »

Look Thiel is not the real issue here. He might be if he was the only person Gawker outed, but that's very far from the case. Gawker might even be responsible for at least one suicide for f[inks] sake. Is being able to see a Hulk Hogan sex tape that important?
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TheDeadFlagBlues
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« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2016, 02:20:48 AM »

The controversy surrounding the "outing" of Peter Thiel is rather sickening. He's a plutocrat who exercises a great deal of power and influence by virtue of his wealth alone. This rent-seeking behavior is corrosive to American democracy. None of this even begins to mention the fact that his viewpoints are odious, repulsive and damaging. Dredging up personal information and using it against him is a virtue, not a vice. All means must be exercised to "show truth to power" and force pompous elites to recognize that their use of public power cannot be made private or obfuscated by the flaws in our political culture and campaign finance laws.

On the other hand, it's also pretty clear that Gawker's flagrant violations of privacy have little to do with a grandiose political agenda. It's related to its clickbait-driven business model, which is hardly different than any other gossip-driven publication. Gawker has routinely made grievous errors relating to the privacy of others and, perhaps more importantly, has not taken journalistic ethics very seriously. It's an amateur-hour news site that is no substitute for old media sources. Gawker is a constant reminder that the rise of the "New Media" is nothing to be celebrated.

As such, I feel pretty conflicted about all of this. On the one hand, I wouldn't shed a tear if Peter Thiel died of a stroke and was found to have had a very painful death. On the other hand, Gawker needs to voluntarily shut itself down because it's a cesspool of bad journalism.
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BRTD
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« Reply #36 on: August 21, 2016, 10:31:01 AM »

The main thing here is Gawker wasn't simply a "stupid tabloid". It was an EVIL site. It ruined lives and might've been responsible for at least one suicide.

Gawker wasn't just inane and low-brow, it was a destructive force of evil.
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SATW
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« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2016, 10:37:53 AM »

good riddance to a truly trashy site.
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RI
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« Reply #38 on: August 21, 2016, 10:39:52 AM »

Too bad Jezebel isn't shuttering too.
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Lyin' Steve
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« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2016, 11:05:27 AM »

The controversy surrounding the "outing" of Peter Thiel is rather sickening. He's a plutocrat who exercises a great deal of power and influence by virtue of his wealth alone... Dredging up personal information and using it against him is a virtue, not a vice.
I wouldn't shed a tear if Peter Thiel died of a stroke and was found to have had a very painful death.

WTF??


I actually haven't seen a lot of crazy sh**t from Jezebel littering my Facebook feed lately.  Seems like they've been mostly replaced by EverydayFeminism and Feministing for people's main source of "your top ten favorite movies that you didn't realize were actually parables about privilege and power" or "does eating macaroons make me an oppressor?" articles.
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Cory
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« Reply #40 on: August 21, 2016, 02:04:04 PM »

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DavidB.
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« Reply #41 on: August 21, 2016, 02:13:38 PM »
« Edited: August 21, 2016, 02:15:13 PM by DavidB. »

The controversy surrounding the "outing" of Peter Thiel is rather sickening. He's a plutocrat who exercises a great deal of power and influence by virtue of his wealth alone. This rent-seeking behavior is corrosive to American democracy. None of this even begins to mention the fact that his viewpoints are odious, repulsive and damaging. Dredging up personal information and using it against him is a virtue, not a vice.
I didn't expect this from you. The only reason people are "outed" by tabloids is because homophobes find it relevant if someone happens to be gay. If this homophobia had not existed, people wouldn't be outed because the public wouldn't care. Therefore, the victims of engaging in such "journalism" are not just the ones who are outed but all gay people, because doing so perpetuates a climate in which a "witch hunt" against gay people is seen as legitimate by some. If you truly support gay people's right to be gay no matter who they are or what they do, you should not condone Gawker's behavior, regardless of your opinion of Thiel.
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Speed of Sound
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« Reply #42 on: August 21, 2016, 08:33:23 PM »

The controversy surrounding the "outing" of Peter Thiel is rather sickening. He's a plutocrat who exercises a great deal of power and influence by virtue of his wealth alone. This rent-seeking behavior is corrosive to American democracy. None of this even begins to mention the fact that his viewpoints are odious, repulsive and damaging. Dredging up personal information and using it against him is a virtue, not a vice.
I didn't expect this from you. The only reason people are "outed" by tabloids is because homophobes find it relevant if someone happens to be gay. If this homophobia had not existed, people wouldn't be outed because the public wouldn't care. Therefore, the victims of engaging in such "journalism" are not just the ones who are outed but all gay people, because doing so perpetuates a climate in which a "witch hunt" against gay people is seen as legitimate by some. If you truly support gay people's right to be gay no matter who they are or what they do, you should not condone Gawker's behavior, regardless of your opinion of Thiel.
Well said. "Outing" people is absolutely to say that you believe being gay is wrong and worthy of public scorn. Anyone who supports "outing" as a method of attack is absolutely and universally anti-gay. It's a despicable kind of act that mars the integrity of journalism and can even put lives at risk, but at any rate certainly pushes society backward. I feel no pity for anyone at Gawker who had anything to do with it or did anything less than vehemently and both privately and publicly oppose it.
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Ray Goldfield
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« Reply #43 on: August 21, 2016, 08:35:28 PM »

An actively vicious, malevolent site. They won't be missed and Peter Thiel is an American hero.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #44 on: August 21, 2016, 08:41:04 PM »

The controversy surrounding the "outing" of Peter Thiel is rather sickening. He's a plutocrat who exercises a great deal of power and influence by virtue of his wealth alone. This rent-seeking behavior is corrosive to American democracy. None of this even begins to mention the fact that his viewpoints are odious, repulsive and damaging. Dredging up personal information and using it against him is a virtue, not a vice.
I didn't expect this from you. The only reason people are "outed" by tabloids is because homophobes find it relevant if someone happens to be gay. If this homophobia had not existed, people wouldn't be outed because the public wouldn't care. Therefore, the victims of engaging in such "journalism" are not just the ones who are outed but all gay people, because doing so perpetuates a climate in which a "witch hunt" against gay people is seen as legitimate by some. If you truly support gay people's right to be gay no matter who they are or what they do, you should not condone Gawker's behavior, regardless of your opinion of Thiel.
Well said. "Outing" people is absolutely to say that you believe being gay is wrong and worthy of public scorn. Anyone who supports "outing" as a method of attack is absolutely and universally anti-gay. It's a despicable kind of act that mars the integrity of journalism and can even put lives at risk, but at any rate certainly pushes society backward. I feel no pity for anyone at Gawker who had anything to do with it or did anything less than vehemently and both privately and publicly oppose it.

I can't agree with that, not without an exception for politicians voting for politics of LGBT hate and people funding such hateful politicians.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #45 on: August 22, 2016, 04:40:46 AM »
« Edited: August 22, 2016, 04:47:11 AM by DavidB. »

I can't agree with that, not without an exception for politicians voting for politics of LGBT hate and people funding such hateful politicians.
The point is that this exception doesn't really only target these hypocritical politicians, it targets closeted gay people everywhere. By making this exception, you literally make use of homophobia to score political points in an extremely cynical way, because, again, if people wouldn't be homophobic, outing them would make no difference so tabloids and other sewer-tier media wouldn't do it and gay people could choose to tell the public they're gay whenever they feel like doing so. If you're against homophobia, it makes absolutely no sense to use it to "punish" someone when it is really the pervasiveness of homophobia in society that needs to be tackled, not some closeted politician (regardless of how despicable the LGBT policies they advocate are) whose contribution to this pervasiveness of homophobia will always be marginal. So no, I wouldn't be willing to make exceptions for even the extreme cases of, say, Mike Pence or Bezalel Smotrich -- not because they deserve a "free pass" for their views (which should certainly be debated and ridiculed), but because by "outing people" one perpetuates homophobia and becomes very much part of the problem.

It is similar to saying black politician X is not pro-BLM enough, so let's go to racist white people and use racist political points against this politician to punish him. If you're truly anti-racist, you don't do that, because you don't want to make cynical use of an oppressive societal climate you wanted to combat.
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« Reply #46 on: August 22, 2016, 06:48:51 AM »
« Edited: August 22, 2016, 06:56:02 AM by a.scott »

David, what would you make of cases involving, say, highly revered religious figures, who preach fervently against homosexuality in the most vitriolic ways imaginable with the threat of damnation and the like?  Should people sympathize with them when they're caught in gay prostitution rings or soliciting men on Grindr?  This is obviously a bigger problem in Christian (obviously, conservative) circles and if I recall correctly, you are not a Christian yourself, but I don't think those circumstances are far removed from those of closeted politicians towing their party's line against LGBT people.

The fundamental difference between this and Peter Thiel's case is that Thiel was outed specifically for having arch-libertarian views - views which bear no relevance to his sexuality.  But exposing the sheer hypocrisy of those who pronounce homosexuality to be wrong or immoral and have sizable influence on how society looks upon homosexuality is just that: exposing hypocrisy, not perpetuating the stigma.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #47 on: August 22, 2016, 01:24:57 PM »

David, what would you make of cases involving, say, highly revered religious figures, who preach fervently against homosexuality in the most vitriolic ways imaginable with the threat of damnation and the like?  Should people sympathize with them when they're caught in gay prostitution rings or soliciting men on Grindr?  This is obviously a bigger problem in Christian (obviously, conservative) circles and if I recall correctly, you are not a Christian yourself, but I don't think those circumstances are far removed from those of closeted politicians towing their party's line against LGBT people.

The fundamental difference between this and Peter Thiel's case is that Thiel was outed specifically for having arch-libertarian views - views which bear no relevance to his sexuality.  But exposing the sheer hypocrisy of those who pronounce homosexuality to be wrong or immoral and have sizable influence on how society looks upon homosexuality is just that: exposing hypocrisy, not perpetuating the stigma.
I'm not talking about "sympathizing" with closeted people who frequently espouse anti-LGBT views; while I do think these people are to pity (in a world without homophobia, no one would be forced to stay in the closet, and eventually even these people are being oppressed -- they are probably scared as hell people will find out, which is very sad personally even if they say disgusting things), the bigger point is not about them. The bigger point is that if these people are outed, other gay, closeted people will be even more anxious about getting outed, while the fundamental oppressive dynamics in which homophobia remains pervasive do not change. Meanwhile, by outing someone, you do perpetuate the stigma, because everyone who outs someone knows that if not for homophobia, outing someone wouldn't matter. It is exactly because it does matter that it has an impact and that people do it, and that's wrong.

I also don't think there are that many people who have "sizable influence" over public opinion regarding LGBT issues; I wouldn't overestimate the influence of Congressman X or reverend Y (btw, I am, indeed, not a Christian; unfortunately, Jews don't lack people in the homophobia department either) on this.

I believe there are much more effective, much more positive and much less problematic ways to combat homophobia, along the lines of the LGBT movement in the last years.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #48 on: August 22, 2016, 01:39:57 PM »

The main thing here is Gawker wasn't simply a "stupid tabloid". It was an EVIL site. It ruined lives and might've been responsible for at least one suicide.

Gawker wasn't just inane and low-brow, it was a destructive force of evil.

It also needs pointing out (endlessly until it sinks in) that in this very case Gawker tried to use the fundamental economic injustices built into the U.S.A. legal system to its own advantage, but that then things backfired rather dramatically. A pretty clear cut case of someone being hoisted by their own petard, frankly.
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« Reply #49 on: August 22, 2016, 03:12:42 PM »

The reason Thiel had a grudge against Gawker is perfectly valid, they outed him without his consent. And they have outed plenty of other gays for years quite irresponsibly. Yeah, good riddance.

I think Peter Thiel's sexual orientation is very much a public matter when he supports the Republican Party, one of the most virulently anti-gay parties in the West.

Exposing the hypocrisy of the rich and powerful is what journalists have always done.

It's not hypocritical at all to understand that those issues mean less than nothing to anybody, so you shouldn't feel the need to continue speaking for him and his priorities. His self-sacrifice for the greater good is deeply admirable. These have always been a side issue that prevent America from being great and now one party has hijacked the issue to indoctrinate people into  promoting the rest of its corrosive agenda. Thiel should be lauded for eternity for doing his small part to fight for the true good -- if the good in the end ever makes a triumphant comeback to win.
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