Trump courting American voters in Israel; estimated 300,000 voters

[Virginiá]

Considering this country was founded upon not allowing people living in distant lands to decide what goes on in this country, I think it's far from arbitrary. In addition, they get to vote in their old Congressional districts, not even some generic non-resident-citizen constituency. If Presidential elections were based on popular vote, I might support it, but non-resident voting is incompatible with the Electoral College.

They are freakin citizens. It's their right to vote. Again, an arbitrary restriction. You're acting like they aren't Americans. Perhaps we should have maybe a global at-large "district" so they don't vote on behalf of areas they don't live in, but until that is done, they deserve a vote. I'll be honest, this is sort of a pointless argument (I imagine). I'm never going to change my mind on this, and I don't see you doing so either.

Only semi-relevant, but what is your opinion of politicians diluting districts with non-voting prison populations?

[Kingpoleon]

And they thought they'd successfully fleed the country.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Every other developed country in the world has voter ID and restrictions on non-resident citizen voting. The problem in America is the draconian worldwide taxation scheme that allows non-residents to justify voting.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.  Plenty of countries allow and some even encourage non-resident citizens to vote.  But facts are irrelevant, since clearly your intention is to shrink the voter pool and increase the likelihood of nationalists succeeding.  Petty - and sad.

You've certainly got YOUR eye on the voter pool as well.

The people who ought to vote, in a perfect world, are American citizens who are vested in American daily life.  If you've lived outside the country for the better part of a decade, I would question your vestiture in daily American life.

[Santander]

Only semi-relevant, but what is your opinion of politicians diluting districts with non-voting prison populations?

I don't believe in felon disenfranchisement at all, other than for those convicted of crimes against the state such as treason, mutiny, sedition, or terrorism.

[Ebowed]

If you've lived outside the country for the better part of a decade, I would question your vestiture in daily American life.

And if you support Donald Trump, I would question your patriotism.

[NOVA Green]

Lololol. I wonder if some of my relatives will be convinced to do this. About half my extended family lives in Israel, with a 1/3rd of those being Americans.

If they are American citizens than obviously they should be allowed to cast their votes in Presidential Elections, as well as statewide elections potentially based upon their previous states of residency/ US Driver Licenses....

OT: But I had two nieces that lived in Israel over the past five years, and absolutely they should be able to vote in Presidential Elections as all Ex-Pats can. I have a younger sister who has been living in the UK for 10 years with residency and work permits, who can't vote in the UK, but as an American Citizen should be able to vote in America.

There is absolutely no reason whatsoever why any American citizen living overseas, regardless of the time that they have lived in another country, should not be allowed to vote in US Presidential Elections.

Now, my orthodox Jewish nieces were both Obama supporters when they lived in Israel, but it doesn't matter (They could have just as easily been McCain or Romney voters) when it comes to American citizens living abroad having the right to vote, it should be allowed in all cases unless the citizen decides to become a citizen of another country,

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

This is not remotely scandalous or unusual in any way.

It's also not likely to help him. Israelis don't want another would-be savior of a President whose ego is big enough to make him think he can unilaterally solve the region's problems.

[Indy Texas]

This seems like a really inefficient strategy. Those 300,000 voters are parceled out across a lot of different states, including a lot of reliably blue ones like NY and NJ.

[Erc]

As an ex-pat for most of my childhood, I certainly support ex-pat voting; nothing makes you more patriotic than living abroad.  I believe my parents didn't vote when they lived overseas; I was told this was due to various pre-FATCA (or New York-specific) tax reasons, though I'm not sure that's correct.

Though I do have to say that it's a bit weird that if you move to Puerto Rico you're disenfranchised on the Presidential level, but if you move to Madagascar you're not.

[Fuzzy Bear]

If you've lived outside the country for the better part of a decade, I would question your vestiture in daily American life.

And if you support Donald Trump, I would question your patriotism.

I normally don't respond as I am about to here.  There are lots of folks I find obnoxious here that I will suffer and respond to as factually as I can.  But judging from your last few posts, you may be the most over-the-top irrational in this forum, regardless of party or ideology.

[Ebowed]

I normally don't respond as I am about to here.  There are lots of folks I find obnoxious here that I will suffer and respond to as factually as I can.  But judging from your last few posts, you may be the most over-the-top irrational in this forum, regardless of party or ideology.

Hogwash.  What's over-the-top is plotting to disenfranchise large numbers of people.  What's irrational is cheerleading the candidacy of a man who tries to manipulate the electorate through fear and bigotry.  What's patriotic is standing strong against hate, against voter disenfranchisement, and against the politics of fear and division.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I normally don't respond as I am about to here.  There are lots of folks I find obnoxious here that I will suffer and respond to as factually as I can.  But judging from your last few posts, you may be the most over-the-top irrational in this forum, regardless of party or ideology.

Hogwash.  What's over-the-top is plotting to disenfranchise large numbers of people.  What's irrational is cheerleading the candidacy of a man who tries to manipulate the electorate through fear and bigotry.  What's patriotic is standing strong against hate, against voter disenfranchisement, and against the politics of fear and division.

Because bull**** about Hillary, something, something.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Uh, American certainly isn't the only country that grants non-resident expats voting rights. My Mom is able to vote in Mexican elections and the last time she lived in Mexico was in 1992. Considering that she sends remittances to family members, owns a house in Mexico, paid taxes for quite a while and is entitled to her public pension, she ought to be entitled to vote in Mexican elections.

I'll note that most migrant-sending countries grant non-resident expats voting rights and that this is for a reason. Those who emigrate elsewhere are never fully removed from the communities and families of their country of origin. They usually have a stake in their former home. The idea that someone has to physically live somewhere in order to participate in the democratic process is far-fetched garbage that only a juvenile fool who's detached from the realities of adulthood would propagate.

[NOVA Green]

Uh, American certainly isn't the only country that grants non-resident expats voting rights. My Mom is able to vote in Mexican elections and the last time she lived in Mexico was in 1992. Considering that she sends remittances to family members, owns a house in Mexico, paid taxes for quite a while and is entitled to her public pension, she ought to be entitled to vote in Mexican elections.

I'll note that most migrant-sending countries grant non-resident expats voting rights and that this is for a reason. Those who emigrate elsewhere are never fully removed from the communities and families of their country of origin. They usually have a stake in their former home. The idea that someone has to physically live somewhere in order to participate in the democratic process is far-fetched garbage that only a juvenile fool who's detached from the realities of adulthood would propagate.

This

[Indy Texas]

Uh, American certainly isn't the only country that grants non-resident expats voting rights. My Mom is able to vote in Mexican elections and the last time she lived in Mexico was in 1992. Considering that she sends remittances to family members, owns a house in Mexico, paid taxes for quite a while and is entitled to her public pension, she ought to be entitled to vote in Mexican elections.

I'll note that most migrant-sending countries grant non-resident expats voting rights and that this is for a reason. Those who emigrate elsewhere are never fully removed from the communities and families of their country of origin. They usually have a stake in their former home. The idea that someone has to physically live somewhere in order to participate in the democratic process is far-fetched garbage that only a juvenile fool who's detached from the realities of adulthood would propagate.

The US isn't really a "migrant sending" country overall, though.

Pretty much all Americans who live abroad full-time are wealthy, highly skilled workers employed by multinational corporations. You don't have blue-collar Americans going to do entry-level work in Europe or Asia and wiring money back home to the folks in Kentucky.

The big difference is that if you're an American and live elsewhere, you made a conscious choice to do so. You weren't emigrating to support your poor, starving family or flee political or religious persecution. Most American ex-pats are members of the "global elite" who pretty much already have likeminded elected officials in any country they go to whether they can vote or not.

[Ebowed]

Pretty much all Americans who live abroad full-time are wealthy, highly skilled workers employed by multinational corporations. You don't have blue-collar Americans going to do entry-level work in Europe or Asia and wiring money back home to the folks in Kentucky.

The big difference is that if you're an American and live elsewhere, you made a conscious choice to do so. You weren't emigrating to support your poor, starving family or flee political or religious persecution. Most American ex-pats are members of the "global elite" who pretty much already have likeminded elected officials in any country they go to whether they can vote or not.

None of that is necessarily true of every American abroad and it shouldn't just be assumed in conjunction with an effort to delegitimize the right of citizens to vote.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Pretty much all Americans who live abroad full-time are wealthy, highly skilled workers employed by multinational corporations. You don't have blue-collar Americans going to do entry-level work in Europe or Asia and wiring money back home to the folks in Kentucky.

The big difference is that if you're an American and live elsewhere, you made a conscious choice to do so. You weren't emigrating to support your poor, starving family or flee political or religious persecution. Most American ex-pats are members of the "global elite" who pretty much already have likeminded elected officials in any country they go to whether they can vote or not.

None of that is necessarily true of every American abroad and it shouldn't just be assumed in conjunction with an effort to delegitimize the right of citizens to vote.

^^^

It's actually far more likely that Americans living abroad are the children of poor immigrants or are naturalized emigrants to the US than "wealthy expats". Notice the number of migrant flows to Mexico from the US; many people in this flow are Americans of Mexican descent.

For instance, most Americans who live abroad live in Mexico (~800,000; this is comparable to the number of expats in all of the EU combined!), Canada (~300,000), the Philippines (~600,000) and Israel (~185,000). None of these countries are really filled with "wealthy American expats". While there are plenty of affluent Americans in Mexico in San Miguel Allende or Mexico City, there are likely far more Mexican-Americans who are living with family members or whatever. I imagine that the same is true of the Philippines.

Basically, it's very foolish to make assumptions about any of this. Based off of taking a cursory look at statistics, it becomes clear that the number of imagined affluent expatriates is far higher than it is reality. For instance, there are nearly as many expatriates in the Dominican Republic (82,000) as there are in Australia (90,000).

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

How many of these people even vote in swing states? Probably at least half of their official residences are in New York and California.

[SATW]

How many of these people even vote in swing states? Probably at least half of their official residences are in New York and California.

Yea, you're most likely right but remember a lot of these people could also be from Florida and Pennsylvania. However, even those voters would be from left-leaning areas of those swing states.

Also, in terms of make-up of Americans living in Israel, there are three categories that could fit these people:

- Politically motivated migrants: American Jews whose Zionism is so passionate that they felt compelled to move to Israel. There are different waves of this type of American-Israeli but they usually come from strong Jewish families that are very Pro-Israel. These people usually, but not always, become "lone soldiers" (soldiers who immigrated to serve) in the IDF Depending on the age group, Trump could win some of these people, but there are so many young Jews, most of whom aren't religious or crazy right-wing, who make up this group...and I just don't see these people voting for him.
- Retirees: There are many American Jews who want to move to Israel but won't for a variety of reasons when they are younger (patriotism for the U.S. is a bigger pull for them, they want to keep more of their money safe from the high Israeli taxes, they have better job security in America, they don't want to serve in the IDF, they want to raise their kids in America for schools and job opportunities etc...). So, once these people retire they decide to move to Israel. In some cases, these are people who follow their kids to Israel. I don't see Trump doing well with this "demographic"...they are older, more Ashkenazi and more liberal, usually. A good example is former U.S. Congressman Peter Deutsch (D-FL; DWS' mentor).
- Other: This is a catch-all for all other American Jews who immigrate to Israel. Some might have left due to money problems (seriously unlikely, considering Israel's economy sucks but I'm sure there are some), some might have moved there for jobs, other to escape legal problems in the U.S. etc...etc... This is such a small group that I doubt Trump would get any real bump from this type of voter.

[Santander]

Pretty much all Americans who live abroad full-time are wealthy, highly skilled workers employed by multinational corporations. You don't have blue-collar Americans going to do entry-level work in Europe or Asia and wiring money back home to the folks in Kentucky.

The big difference is that if you're an American and live elsewhere, you made a conscious choice to do so. You weren't emigrating to support your poor, starving family or flee political or religious persecution. Most American ex-pats are members of the "global elite" who pretty much already have likeminded elected officials in any country they go to whether they can vote or not.

None of that is necessarily true of every American abroad and it shouldn't just be assumed in conjunction with an effort to delegitimize the right of citizens to vote.

Oh, please. Even after a 5 or 15-year overseas voting window, they would have the right to vote. They would just need to move back to America for a while. The vast majority of expats would not be disenfranchised by a 15-year overseas voting period, as is the period in the UK, and the only ones who couldn't are those who have, in technical terms, permanently settled elsewhere, or were anchor babies/citizens by descent who have no individual ties to America in the first place.

All these bottom-tier countries that people talk about that allow unrestricted non-resident voting do not have jus soli nationality law. You can't have both - choose one or the other.

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

And zero Electoral College votes. Good job.

It doesn't work that way.  Expatriates can generally vote in federal elections in the state they were last resident.  So if they used to live in Broward County, Florida, they can vote by absentee in Florida.

I understand this. But will these votes add up an tilt any state? Doubtful.

[Hnv1]

Considering the demographics of the Americans living here the GOP would have got a majority anyway but against Clinton I can actually see Trump's margin shrink compared to Romney. Anyway unless he thinks Florida is going to be contested on a split of a hair this is resources gone down the drain.