The most unpopular election in recent history

[PresidentSamTilden]

I want to highlight this section from the Monomouth national poll release yesterday:

"'The number of voters who cannot bring themselves to voice a positive opinion of either presidential nominee is more than three times higher than in any other election in recent memory.  This is unprecedented," said Murray.'"

http://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/MonmouthPoll_US_082916/

It's undeniable that both of these candidates are at record lows in favorable ratings. Some people point to polarization for this. However, I argue that in a perfectly polarized environment, both candidates would be at 50/50. In addition, 21% of voters have expressed a dislike for BOTH candidates - another record high.

I have two questions for the minds here:

1. Would other candidates, for example Sanders and Kasich, have favorable ratings more in line with norms for presidential elections? Or are Hillary and Donald's ratings more indicative of a general dissatisfaction in America?

2. How were two candidates that are so generally unpopular able to win their respective nominations fairly easily?

[twenty42]

1. Would other candidates, for example Sanders and Kasich, have favorable ratings more in line with norms for presidential elections? Or are Hillary and Donald's ratings more indicative of a general dissatisfaction in America?

2. How were two candidates that are so generally unpopular able to win their respective nominations fairly easily?

1. Hard to say. I think Clinton and Trump together received something like 51-52% of total votes cast in the primary season and the others were scattered among the also-rans. It is definitely fair to say that a lot of primary voters were unheard when nearly half of the constituency didn't want either candidate. To me, this speaks volumes about the state of the American political crop in general. Neither side could really come up with a uniter, and this was the result.

2. This is a simple answer...both parties' nomination methods are vastly undemocratic.

On the Democratic side, Hillary was essentially given a three-touchdown lead before a single vote was cast. It's impossible to say now, but it's conceivable that the Dem primary could have taken on a very different trajectory from the start with the Iowa tie and Bernie's NH blowout. Instead of taking the early lead that he should have given those eventualities, they were essentially treated as moral victories for the Sanders campaign since Clinton was able to maintain a large lead on the scoreboard even through setbacks. Hillary's (oftentimes very thin) victories were able to crush Bernie to dust, where his (sometimes substantial) victories did little more than put a dent in her hood.

Of course, the Republicans' primary issues are well documented. While I do think Trump ran a pretty good campaign, no one can deny he was able to gobble up healthy amounts of delegates in the early going by taking advantage of pluralities in WTA states. In the same vein as the other side, we will never know what would have happened to Trump in a two- or even three-way race, but it is all but certain that it would have been a brokered convention had Republicans run a purely proportional race. However, there is no guarantee that the result of that eventuality would produce a more palatable nominee.

[Vosem]

Maybe 60% of the Republican Party wanted anyone but Trump. Maybe 40% of the Democratic Party wanted anyone but Hillary. Both nominees are basically incapable of attracting crossover voters. There ya go.

[Maxwell]

what about James Blaine and Grover Cleveland (after we found out Cleveland had a child out of wedlock)?

[PresidentSamTilden]

what about James Blaine and Grover Cleveland (after we found out Cleveland had a child out of wedlock)?

Well, I meant recent as in since the 70's or so. But I've never heard of this, what was the story with that election?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

1988. Neither candidate actually generated personal enthusiasm and Bush had troubles with winning nomination (at least at the beginning) despite being sitting Veep.

[Beet]

One of the reasons Trump won the nomination because the anti-Trump forces were split and never united behind anyone. By late April the NeverTrump movement stood for nothing except party elites overturning the will of voters, and there was a backlash against that, to some extent. Even as late as the Indiana primary when Cruz was throwing a hail-mary pass with Fiorina, Boehner came out the next day and savaged him so badly, the coverage of Boehner's remarks overshadowed Cruz's VP pick. Heck, even on the eve of the convention when the already hopeless #NeverTrump forces were merely trying to unbind delegates as a protest move, there was not even a whisper of who their candidate might have been.

Ironically, if Trump wins in November, it'll likely again be because the anti-Trump forces split (Clinton, Johnson, Stein, abstain).

[Hermit For Peace]

Just throwing in my 2 cents here. As a female, in my view this is definitely NOT the most unpopular election in recent history.

In fact, it is THE MOST significant election in our history! Finally, after all this time, after all the fighting we females (and males included who also fought to upgrade the female status in society) have done to get to where we are today, we finally have the option of voting for a woman for President.

Probably doesn't mean a whole lot to many of you here, I don't know, but I think it's the most exciting election in my history on the planet! Certainly Trump is also adding "color" to an otherwise boring election process.

The candidates my not be especially "popular" to the general voter, but popularity doesn't always equate with effectiveness, or with being a good President.

Sometimes it's just time to get back in balance, no matter how uncomfortable it might be for some people. After 200+ years of testosterone rule, hopefully we'll get the female touch balancing out the Presidency, for a refreshing change.

People just don't seem to be understanding the historic times we are living in. But I do and I'm glad to be alive to see it happening.

[Mercenary]

Oh people know it since that seems to be half her campaign. Sure I prefer her since Trump is so awful but in any other year I certainly wouldnt. Indeed this election is the worst in my lifetime. Although most every election is quite awful if one only considers the R and D candidates.

I at this point would be okay with doing away with primaries. They are pretty pointless. Most of the time we get the "establishment" candidate anyways and when we dont we get someone even worse Trump. Just save the time and money and do it like most countries thwt just have the parry select their leader. The end result will be 90% the same without the chance of getting a lunatic like Trump.

[Devout Centrist]

Whiners.

[Arbitrage1980]

Trump vs Hillary is unequivocally the worst presidential choice in American history. 

America has become so dumb, with an obsession with social media, celebrity gossip, and the 24/7 news cycle, that we are incapable of selecting truly great men/women to be our leaders.  It's a shame, but as the saying goes, we get the leaders that we deserve.  History will look back on the 2016 presidential election as the ultimate nadir when a political party that gave us Lincoln, Eisenhower, Reagan, gave us a reality star con artist who is mentally unstable, while the party that gave us FDR, JFK, Bill Clinton, gave us a woman who has reinvented herself a hundred times, is utterly unlikable, grossly mishandled classified information, and used her position to give out favors to donors. 

Shame on us all.

[Devout Centrist]

Trump vs Hillary is unequivocally the worst presidential choice in American history. 

America has become so dumb, with an obsession with social media, celebrity gossip, and the 24/7 news cycle, that we are incapable of selecting truly great men/women to be our leaders.  It's a shame, but as the saying goes, we get the leaders that we deserve.  History will look back on the 2016 presidential election as the ultimate nadir when a political party that gave us Lincoln, Eisenhower, Reagan, gave us a reality star con artist who is mentally unstable, while the party that gave us FDR, JFK, Bill Clinton, gave us a woman who has reinvented herself a hundred times, is utterly unlikable, grossly mishandled classified information, and used her position to give out favors to donors. 

Shame on us all.

Well then, what the hell happened? Did we all become idiots in the span of 20 years or is it just cool to hate on social media?

[Arbitrage1980]

Trump vs Hillary is unequivocally the worst presidential choice in American history. 

America has become so dumb, with an obsession with social media, celebrity gossip, and the 24/7 news cycle, that we are incapable of selecting truly great men/women to be our leaders.  It's a shame, but as the saying goes, we get the leaders that we deserve.  History will look back on the 2016 presidential election as the ultimate nadir when a political party that gave us Lincoln, Eisenhower, Reagan, gave us a reality star con artist who is mentally unstable, while the party that gave us FDR, JFK, Bill Clinton, gave us a woman who has reinvented herself a hundred times, is utterly unlikable, grossly mishandled classified information, and used her position to give out favors to donors. 

Shame on us all.

Well then, what the hell happened? Did we all become idiots in the span of 20 years or is it just cool to hate on social media?

Couple of things:

1. Nonstop news cycle incentivizes media to sensationalize stories and to dumb everything down.

2. Social media encourages crazy stories and conspiracy theories to easily permeate the electorate.

3. Both parties have become way too polarized ideologically.  Reasonable politicians are afraid of doing the right thing policy wise because of the fear of being challenged in a primary.

4. Because of the grueling nature of campaigns, talented people simply don't want to enter politics like they used to.  For the past 15 or so years, our nation's brightest have been flocking to finance, tech, and other areas of business rather than law, public service, politics. 

I mean compare this year's presidential debates to 1980 GOP debate between Reagan and HW Bush (it's on YouTube), Reagan vs Carter or 1992 Clinton vs HW Bush vs Perot.  YUGE drop in the caliber of candidates and depth of the debates.  And it's utterly laughable to compare Trump vs Hillary to matchups such as Wilkie vs FDR, Dewey vs FDR, Eisenhower vs Stevenson, Nixon vs JFK, HW Bush vs Clinton, even Obama vs Romney. 

[Sumner 1868]

Just throwing in my 2 cents here. As a female, in my view this is definitely NOT the most unpopular election in recent history.

In fact, it is THE MOST significant election in our history! Finally, after all this time, after all the fighting we females (and males included who also fought to upgrade the female status in society) have done to get to where we are today, we finally have the option of voting for a woman for President.

Probably doesn't mean a whole lot to many of you here, I don't know, but I think it's the most exciting election in my history on the planet! Certainly Trump is also adding "color" to an otherwise boring election process.

The candidates my not be especially "popular" to the general voter, but popularity doesn't always equate with effectiveness, or with being a good President.

Sometimes it's just time to get back in balance, no matter how uncomfortable it might be for some people. After 200+ years of testosterone rule, hopefully we'll get the female touch balancing out the Presidency, for a refreshing change.

People just don't seem to be understanding the historic times we are living in. But I do and I'm glad to be alive to see it happening.

This sounds a lot like the Obama hype of 2008 because of his race.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Trump vs Hillary is unequivocally the worst presidential choice in American history. 

America has become so dumb, with an obsession with social media, celebrity gossip, and the 24/7 news cycle, that we are incapable of selecting truly great men/women to be our leaders.  It's a shame, but as the saying goes, we get the leaders that we deserve.  History will look back on the 2016 presidential election as the ultimate nadir when a political party that gave us Lincoln, Eisenhower, Reagan, gave us a reality star con artist who is mentally unstable, while the party that gave us FDR, JFK, Bill Clinton, gave us a woman who has reinvented herself a hundred times, is utterly unlikable, grossly mishandled classified information, and used her position to give out favors to donors. 

Shame on us all.

Well then, what the hell happened? Did we all become idiots in the span of 20 years or is it just cool to hate on social media?

Couple of things:

1. Nonstop news cycle incentivizes media to sensationalize stories and to dumb everything down.

2. Social media encourages crazy stories and conspiracy theories to easily permeate the electorate.

3. Both parties have become way too polarized ideologically.  Reasonable politicians are afraid of doing the right thing policy wise because of the fear of being challenged in a primary.

4. Because of the grueling nature of campaigns, talented people simply don't want to enter politics like they used to.  For the past 15 or so years, our nation's brightest have been flocking to finance, tech, and other areas of business rather than law, public service, politics. 

I mean compare this year's presidential debates to 1980 GOP debate between Reagan and HW Bush (it's on YouTube), Reagan vs Carter or 1992 Clinton vs HW Bush vs Perot.  YUGE drop in the caliber of candidates and depth of the debates.  And it's utterly laughable to compare Trump vs Hillary to matchups such as Wilkie vs FDR, Dewey vs FDR, Eisenhower vs Stevenson, Nixon vs JFK, HW Bush vs Clinton, even Obama vs Romney. 

Heck compare this year GOP debates to the 2000 or even 2008 one and its laughable

[Hermit For Peace]

Just throwing in my 2 cents here. As a female, in my view this is definitely NOT the most unpopular election in recent history.

In fact, it is THE MOST significant election in our history! Finally, after all this time, after all the fighting we females (and males included who also fought to upgrade the female status in society) have done to get to where we are today, we finally have the option of voting for a woman for President.

Probably doesn't mean a whole lot to many of you here, I don't know, but I think it's the most exciting election in my history on the planet! Certainly Trump is also adding "color" to an otherwise boring election process.

The candidates my not be especially "popular" to the general voter, but popularity doesn't always equate with effectiveness, or with being a good President.

Sometimes it's just time to get back in balance, no matter how uncomfortable it might be for some people. After 200+ years of testosterone rule, hopefully we'll get the female touch balancing out the Presidency, for a refreshing change.

People just don't seem to be understanding the historic times we are living in. But I do and I'm glad to be alive to see it happening.

This sounds a lot like the Obama hype of 2008 because of his race.

You can call it hype if you want, but in both cases, glass ceilings were broken. And if you aren't black or a female, then it probably didn't affect you, so why should you care, right?

But it does affect society as a whole, and in a good way, IMO.

[DS0816]

I want to highlight this section from the Monomouth national poll release yesterday:

"'The number of voters who cannot bring themselves to voice a positive opinion of either presidential nominee is more than three times higher than in any other election in recent memory.  This is unprecedented," said Murray.'"

http://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/MonmouthPoll_US_082916/

It's undeniable that both of these candidates are at record lows in favorable ratings. Some people point to polarization for this. However, I argue that in a perfectly polarized environment, both candidates would be at 50/50. In addition, 21% of voters have expressed a dislike for BOTH candidates - another record high.

I have two questions for the minds here:

1. Would other candidates, for example Sanders and Kasich, have favorable ratings more in line with norms for presidential elections? Or are Hillary and Donald's ratings more indicative of a general dissatisfaction in America?

2. How were two candidates that are so generally unpopular able to win their respective nominations fairly easily?

1. Yes

2. Incompetence

[Dictionary]

Trump vs Hillary is unequivocally the worst presidential choice in American history. 

America has become so dumb, with an obsession with social media, celebrity gossip, and the 24/7 news cycle, that we are incapable of selecting truly great men/women to be our leaders.  It's a shame, but as the saying goes, we get the leaders that we deserve.  History will look back on the 2016 presidential election as the ultimate nadir when a political party that gave us Lincoln, Eisenhower, Reagan, gave us a reality star con artist who is mentally unstable, while the party that gave us FDR, JFK, Bill Clinton, gave us a woman who has reinvented herself a hundred times, is utterly unlikable, grossly mishandled classified information, and used her position to give out favors to donors. 

Shame on us all.

Well then, what the hell happened? Did we all become idiots in the span of 20 years or is it just cool to hate on social media?

Couple of things:

1. Nonstop news cycle incentivizes media to sensationalize stories and to dumb everything down.

2. Social media encourages crazy stories and conspiracy theories to easily permeate the electorate.

3. Both parties have become way too polarized ideologically.  Reasonable politicians are afraid of doing the right thing policy wise because of the fear of being challenged in a primary.

4. Because of the grueling nature of campaigns, talented people simply don't want to enter politics like they used to.  For the past 15 or so years, our nation's brightest have been flocking to finance, tech, and other areas of business rather than law, public service, politics. 

I mean compare this year's presidential debates to 1980 GOP debate between Reagan and HW Bush (it's on YouTube), Reagan vs Carter or 1992 Clinton vs HW Bush vs Perot.  YUGE drop in the caliber of candidates and depth of the debates.  And it's utterly laughable to compare Trump vs Hillary to matchups such as Wilkie vs FDR, Dewey vs FDR, Eisenhower vs Stevenson, Nixon vs JFK, HW Bush vs Clinton, even Obama vs Romney. 

Heck compare this year GOP debates to the 2000 or even 2008 one and its laughable

America isn't to bright! My first post on a political forum and I have to say that I'm embarrassed as an American to have these two nominees. The best anyone could do in my opinion is to choose the most capable. I'm also disgusted with the complaining of our country. We have it made in the US. Where else can someone make a life size nude sculpture of a Presidential nominee and have no repercussions. People here are so free, they've become spoiled brats. Just my 2 cents. But here to promote Trumpdictionary.com Please visit and share wide... Thanks 

[Phony Moderate]

Scroll down to the third table: http://www.gallup.com/poll/193376/trump-leads-clinton-historically-bad-image-ratings.aspx

Hillary and Trump are 15% and 24% less popular respectively than Walter Mondale. Suspect that's due to a combination of an increase in cynicism, polarization and the general knowledge that these two candidates aren't exactly the cleanest people in the world. Still, it's an amusing statistic.

[Arbitrage1980]

Trump vs Hillary is unequivocally the worst presidential choice in American history. 

America has become so dumb, with an obsession with social media, celebrity gossip, and the 24/7 news cycle, that we are incapable of selecting truly great men/women to be our leaders.  It's a shame, but as the saying goes, we get the leaders that we deserve.  History will look back on the 2016 presidential election as the ultimate nadir when a political party that gave us Lincoln, Eisenhower, Reagan, gave us a reality star con artist who is mentally unstable, while the party that gave us FDR, JFK, Bill Clinton, gave us a woman who has reinvented herself a hundred times, is utterly unlikable, grossly mishandled classified information, and used her position to give out favors to donors. 

Shame on us all.

Well then, what the hell happened? Did we all become idiots in the span of 20 years or is it just cool to hate on social media?

Couple of things:

1. Nonstop news cycle incentivizes media to sensationalize stories and to dumb everything down.

2. Social media encourages crazy stories and conspiracy theories to easily permeate the electorate.

3. Both parties have become way too polarized ideologically.  Reasonable politicians are afraid of doing the right thing policy wise because of the fear of being challenged in a primary.

4. Because of the grueling nature of campaigns, talented people simply don't want to enter politics like they used to.  For the past 15 or so years, our nation's brightest have been flocking to finance, tech, and other areas of business rather than law, public service, politics. 

I mean compare this year's presidential debates to 1980 GOP debate between Reagan and HW Bush (it's on YouTube), Reagan vs Carter or 1992 Clinton vs HW Bush vs Perot.  YUGE drop in the caliber of candidates and depth of the debates.  And it's utterly laughable to compare Trump vs Hillary to matchups such as Wilkie vs FDR, Dewey vs FDR, Eisenhower vs Stevenson, Nixon vs JFK, HW Bush vs Clinton, even Obama vs Romney. 

Heck compare this year GOP debates to the 2000 or even 2008 one and its laughable

2008 GOP debate was much better than 2012 and 2016. I don't really remember the Bush vs McCain 2000 debates.

[Mr. Smith]

Using debates as an example is laughable, they haven't been of any real use since 1992, which itself was a last gasp when the CPD couldn't find a way to keep Perot out (which they did in '96).

You want dual headed press conference debate quality. Kill the CPD and get the League of Women Voters back on it.

[Inmate Trump]

Trump is literally the least qualified candidate to ever represent a major party in a national election. He's also just a bad candidate. He's certainly the most childish.

Clinton isn't great but she at least she's somewhat stable, and at least she has government experience.