BREAKING: Trump Announces Plan To Gut Education, Eliminate 490,000 Teacher Jobs

[Wells]

Don't you think I would be scared? I have a full ride pell grants right now. The thing is, you do not need a DOE to get pell grants, there are so many more efficient ways to orchestrate them. I live below the poverty line.

You should be scared, but your parents aren't going to lose their jobs over this plan.

[Bismarck]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

There will always be a market for education that doesn't cost 50k per semester.

Get rid of the DoE and there will actually be a market/competition again!

Like those EpiPens, right? That mythical unregulated market that remains accessible and controlled.

The reason they could jack the price of EpiPens up is that the government blocks any competition from entering the market place.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Don't you think I would be scared? I have a full ride pell grants right now. The thing is, you do not need a DOE to get pell grants, there are so many more efficient ways to orchestrate them. I live below the poverty line.

Yeah, Pell Grants predated the DoE by over a decade.

The Dept of Education is basically a way for the federal government to more effectively attach its strings to the funding it provides.

[Bismarck]

Yes, because abolishing the DoE is the same thing as abolishing education. This country educated people before Jimmy Carter and it can do it again without the DoE.

This. This thread is brexit-level fear mongering.

[Southern Delegate matthew27]

Guess what, educating our children is worth the investment...A good reason to vote Clinton in Nov.

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

Could someone explain what the argument for getting rid of the Department of Education is?

"Government needs to me so small you can barely see it! Why should I have to pay for other people's education??? Taxation is theft!!!1!1!"

The problem with this is that a large percentage of the population would be very poor, uneducated and your living standards included would be far below what you enjoy now. So libertarians*, do you really wish to live within such a place in order not pay any taxes?

Scaremongering is not a valid argument.

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

Yes, because abolishing the DoE is the same thing as abolishing education. This country educated people before Jimmy Carter and it can do it again without the DoE.

This. This thread is brexit-level fear mongering.

Seriously.  And what's wrong with competing ideas or ways of teaching?  If people were all the same, a homogeneous, centralized system would work wonders. But we're different and different styles of education work better for different people. 

[Dr. Arch]

Yes, because abolishing the DoE is the same thing as abolishing education. This country educated people before Jimmy Carter and it can do it again without the DoE.

This. This thread is brexit-level fear mongering.

Seriously.  And what's wrong with competing ideas or ways of teaching?  If people were all the same, a homogeneous, centralized system would work wonders. But we're different and different styles of education work better for different people. 

What do you mean by "competing ideas"? I sure hope this doesn't mean creationism or anything else of that wackadoodle line of thinking.

[Wells]

Yes, because abolishing the DoE is the same thing as abolishing education. This country educated people before Jimmy Carter and it can do it again without the DoE.

This. This thread is brexit-level fear mongering.

Seriously.  And what's wrong with competing ideas or ways of teaching?  If people were all the same, a homogeneous, centralized system would work wonders. But we're different and different styles of education work better for different people. 

Our current education system is messed up, but Trump wants to abandon a burning house.

[MasterJedi]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

There will always be a market for education that doesn't cost 50k per semester.

Get rid of the DoE and there will actually be a market/competition again!

Like those EpiPens, right? That mythical unregulated market that remains accessible and controlled.

The reason they could jack the price of EpiPens up is that the government blocks any competition from entering the market place.

Big pharma demanded they get the exclusive right to "earn back the money they spent on creating the drug" for a specified amount of years and any non-pharmaceutical patent they make they get to keep. Then they charge up the wazoo and make incredible profit, way more than what they spent in creation. Government could easily say "no" and stop that practice but the free market doesn't like completion, it likes monopolies and pure profit.

[Southern Delegate matthew27]

For all you that think it isn't reliable.
https://www.americanprogressaction.org/issues/education/news/2016/09/01/162258/trumps-plan-to-eliminate-the-department-of-education-is-yet-another-in-a-list-of-terrible-ideas/

The report

[Maxwell]

I mean several states already have a god damn education funding crisis.

[Terry the Fat Shark]

Don't you think I would be scared? I have a full ride pell grants right now. The thing is, you do not need a DOE to get pell grants, there are so many more efficient ways to orchestrate them. I live below the poverty line.

You should be scared, but your parents aren't going to lose their jobs over this plan.

LOL my Mom is going to university to be a teacher AND is a Library EA, STOP scaremongering

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

Yes, because abolishing the DoE is the same thing as abolishing education. This country educated people before Jimmy Carter and it can do it again without the DoE.

This. This thread is brexit-level fear mongering.

Seriously.  And what's wrong with competing ideas or ways of teaching?  If people were all the same, a homogeneous, centralized system would work wonders. But we're different and different styles of education work better for different people. 

What do you mean by "competing ideas"? I sure hope this doesn't mean creationism or anything else of that wackadoodle line of thinking.

No, but if you want children to learn about creationism then send them to a church or Christian school. 

I'm talking more the methods. Lectures don't work for everyone. Neither does Common Core. You need other choices to better fit the student's learning ability so they learn better and don't get bored.

[Bismarck]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

There will always be a market for education that doesn't cost 50k per semester.

Get rid of the DoE and there will actually be a market/competition again!

Like those EpiPens, right? That mythical unregulated market that remains accessible and controlled.

The reason they could jack the price of EpiPens up is that the government blocks any competition from entering the market place.

Big pharma demanded they get the exclusive right to "earn back the money they spent on creating the drug" for a specified amount of years and any non-pharmaceutical patent they make they get to keep. Then they charge up the wazoo and make incredible profit, way more than what they spent in creation. Government could easily say "no" and stop that practice but the free market doesn't like completion, it likes monopolies and pure profit.

Yes I agree with everything you're saying until your conclusion that the government getting out of the way would be the opposite of a free market. Government creating an artificial monopoly is the opposite of a free market.

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

There will always be a market for education that doesn't cost 50k per semester.

Get rid of the DoE and there will actually be a market/competition again!

Like those EpiPens, right? That mythical unregulated market that remains accessible and controlled.

The reason they could jack the price of EpiPens up is that the government blocks any competition from entering the market place.

Big pharma demanded they get the exclusive right to "earn back the money they spent on creating the drug" for a specified amount of years and any non-pharmaceutical patent they make they get to keep. Then they charge up the wazoo and make incredible profit, way more than what they spent in creation. Government could easily say "no" and stop that practice but the free market doesn't like completion, it likes monopolies and pure profit.

Yes I agree with everything you're saying until your conclusion that the government getting out of the way would be the opposite of a free market. Government creating an artificial monopoly is the opposite of a free market.

^^^ this. Also eliminating medical patents would go a long way to show who's in it for humanity and who's in it for just $$$.

[MasterJedi]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

There will always be a market for education that doesn't cost 50k per semester.

Get rid of the DoE and there will actually be a market/competition again!

Like those EpiPens, right? That mythical unregulated market that remains accessible and controlled.

The reason they could jack the price of EpiPens up is that the government blocks any competition from entering the market place.

Big pharma demanded they get the exclusive right to "earn back the money they spent on creating the drug" for a specified amount of years and any non-pharmaceutical patent they make they get to keep. Then they charge up the wazoo and make incredible profit, way more than what they spent in creation. Government could easily say "no" and stop that practice but the free market doesn't like completion, it likes monopolies and pure profit.

Yes I agree with everything you're saying until your conclusion that the government getting out of the way would be the opposite of a free market. Government creating an artificial monopoly is the opposite of a free market.

You missed the point. It's the pharmaceutical companies that demanded it and paid for that monopoly. They will fight any politician tooth and nail to keep it and then if they legally could they would choose the Walmart method and sell at such a steep discount and take losses until they were the only manufacturer and then jack the price up. Just like how in the 1800s-early 1900s the free market worked so well that we got the gilded age and huge monopolies.

[morgieb]

Seriously, is Trump trying to lose?

[DrScholl]

Fear-mongering is the buzz word for covering up for bad ideas. Abolishing the Department of Education would be bad for the educational system, mainly for funding reasons. While were at it, why not just get rid of public schools and give all the money to Trump University?

[MasterJedi]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

There will always be a market for education that doesn't cost 50k per semester.

Get rid of the DoE and there will actually be a market/competition again!

Like those EpiPens, right? That mythical unregulated market that remains accessible and controlled.

The reason they could jack the price of EpiPens up is that the government blocks any competition from entering the market place.

Big pharma demanded they get the exclusive right to "earn back the money they spent on creating the drug" for a specified amount of years and any non-pharmaceutical patent they make they get to keep. Then they charge up the wazoo and make incredible profit, way more than what they spent in creation. Government could easily say "no" and stop that practice but the free market doesn't like completion, it likes monopolies and pure profit.

Yes I agree with everything you're saying until your conclusion that the government getting out of the way would be the opposite of a free market. Government creating an artificial monopoly is the opposite of a free market.

^^^ this. Also eliminating medical patents would go a long way to show who's in it for humanity and who's in it for just $$$.

99.9% are in it just for the money and pharmaceutical reps are just pimps. Make they job illegal, get rid of the patents and only non-affiliated medical journals are allowed to do the actual studies on the drugs.

[Bismarck]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

There will always be a market for education that doesn't cost 50k per semester.

Get rid of the DoE and there will actually be a market/competition again!

Like those EpiPens, right? That mythical unregulated market that remains accessible and controlled.

The reason they could jack the price of EpiPens up is that the government blocks any competition from entering the market place.

Big pharma demanded they get the exclusive right to "earn back the money they spent on creating the drug" for a specified amount of years and any non-pharmaceutical patent they make they get to keep. Then they charge up the wazoo and make incredible profit, way more than what they spent in creation. Government could easily say "no" and stop that practice but the free market doesn't like completion, it likes monopolies and pure profit.

Yes I agree with everything you're saying until your conclusion that the government getting out of the way would be the opposite of a free market. Government creating an artificial monopoly is the opposite of a free market.

You missed the point. It's the pharmaceutical companies that demanded it and paid for that monopoly. They will fight any politician tooth and nail to keep it and then if they legally could they would choose the Walmart method and sell at such a steep discount and take losses until they were the only manufacturer and then jack the price up. Just like how in the 1800s-early 1900s the free market worked so well that we got the gilded age and huge monopolies.

Why are you arguing against me when we hold the same position? I don't want monopolies. I support anti-trust legislation. The EpiPen is an example of corporatism though, regardless of whether monopolies can form in other ways or not.

[MasterJedi]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

There will always be a market for education that doesn't cost 50k per semester.

Get rid of the DoE and there will actually be a market/competition again!

Like those EpiPens, right? That mythical unregulated market that remains accessible and controlled.

The reason they could jack the price of EpiPens up is that the government blocks any competition from entering the market place.

Big pharma demanded they get the exclusive right to "earn back the money they spent on creating the drug" for a specified amount of years and any non-pharmaceutical patent they make they get to keep. Then they charge up the wazoo and make incredible profit, way more than what they spent in creation. Government could easily say "no" and stop that practice but the free market doesn't like completion, it likes monopolies and pure profit.

Yes I agree with everything you're saying until your conclusion that the government getting out of the way would be the opposite of a free market. Government creating an artificial monopoly is the opposite of a free market.

You missed the point. It's the pharmaceutical companies that demanded it and paid for that monopoly. They will fight any politician tooth and nail to keep it and then if they legally could they would choose the Walmart method and sell at such a steep discount and take losses until they were the only manufacturer and then jack the price up. Just like how in the 1800s-early 1900s the free market worked so well that we got the gilded age and huge monopolies.

Why are you arguing against me when we hold the same position? I don't want monopolies. I support anti-trust legislation. The EpiPen is an example of corporatism though, regardless of whether monopolies can form in other ways or not.

Because nobody who supports the free market wants to admit the actual free market, give the chance with no regulatioms will move itself to monopolies and no competition. It's what happened before and it would happen again.

[Southern Delegate matthew27]

Only someone that wishes America had extreme poverty would support this. This is nutz.

[Wells]

Don't you think I would be scared? I have a full ride pell grants right now. The thing is, you do not need a DOE to get pell grants, there are so many more efficient ways to orchestrate them. I live below the poverty line.

You should be scared, but your parents aren't going to lose their jobs over this plan.

LOL my Mom is going to university to be a teacher AND is a Library EA, STOP scaremongering

I'm not scaremongering (I just told you your parents wouldn't lose their jobs), I'm legitimately scared and angry and I can't believe somebody would support this disasters.

[Storebought]

How do you maintain the world's largest and most technologically sophisticated military by recruiting from an illiterate and innumerate population? Trump has made noises about reducing US military intervention, but has he also promised to reduce US military preparedness by stacking our armed forces with uneducated recruits and incompetent technicians as well?

I see that the Libertarians here have started recycling Bastiat and his "just because we are against the public funding of education, does not mean we are against education in itself" trope. If you are against a public education system -- teachers, staff, facilities -- adequate and funded to teach young people in an economically developed nation of 320 million, then yes you are against education in itself, because no alternative exists that would provide an education to these people if public system vanished.