What's your vision of either Heaven or an Earthly Paradise or Political Utopia?

[Blue3]

What's your vision of either Heaven or an Earthly Paradise or a Political/Philosophic/Socioeconomic Utopia?

Or all of the above?

Please describe in detail what your vision is.

[Small L]

Obviously we can't know exactly what Heaven is like, but I believe the core of what makes Heaven Heaven is the Beatific Vision. Being with God is all you need in the end. It goes without saying that the Beatific Vision is unimaginable. I tend to think of it in a platonic way though.

I find it strange when people talk about Heaven like it's a really good version of earth. The idea of ice cream, pets, xbox and rollercoasters in Heaven really misses the point. I don't believe Heaven is chock-full of instrumental goods.

[Blue3]

Obviously we can't know exactly what Heaven is like, but I believe the core of what makes Heaven Heaven is the Beatific Vision. Being with God is all you need in the end. It goes without saying that the Beatific Vision is unimaginable. I tend to think of it in a platonic way though.

I find it strange when people talk about Heaven like it's a really good version of earth. The idea of ice cream, pets, xbox and rollercoasters in Heaven really misses the point. I don't believe Heaven is chock-full of instrumental goods.

True, but don't most Christians believe the final afterlife will be on a "New Heaven and a New Earth"?





I had this very intense dream/vision once... and it was of people in the "afterlife."

People still lived in the same universe we do now, they just can't (usually) be perceived by those alive now. So they're still in THIS world/universe, just in another layer of it that we the living can't sense right now.

But also in this "layer", God can be directly sensed and known wherever you go, your perspective has really changed, and God's direct presence is filling you with blissful joy no matter where on Earth or throughout the atmosphere and the solar system/galaxy/universe our spirits travel.

And God can also always "physically" appear in person by your side, like a friend, when you wish, in addition to an eternal presence even more constant than light and gravity are to us now.

With all the spirits (humans and nonhumans) reuniting with each other in loving joy but also exploring the universe, forever learning and loving and enjoying eternal life and continuing to spiritually grow.







As for an Earthly Paradise or Political/Philosophic/Socioeconomic Utopia?


For me it would be us working together on Earth to achieve post-scarcity economics (really post-economics)...

advanced AI/nanotech and advanced automated resource gathering/shaping and abundant clean energy and advanced healthcare and similar tech...

that's all decentralized so each individual has access but without being able to threaten others or public lands & ecosystems...

which would then allow us to no longer need money, mandatory labor, government, laws, etc. ...

where people only do "work" for fun, for creativity and the arts, for spiritual/religious or public service reasons like education, or with new generations trying to challenge the system and find ways to improve it even more...

and everyone would finally free completely free, except that it would be physically impossible (almost like new, man-made laws of physics) to injure/murder/rape/steal/trespass/vandalize others or spoil public spaces and natural ecosystems (and that these changes would happen, everyone would be happy, and there would NOT be any humans seeking cyborg parts or genetic enhancements or superhuman babies).

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

Every attempt to create a Heaven on Earth has resulted in tragedy.

[Blue3]

Every attempt to create a Heaven on Earth has resulted in tragedy.

That's not what I'm asking.

I'm asking for people to describe their visions.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Actually, what Celticempire said is exactly the reason why I don't give much thought to this question. Of course, I have a few basic ideas of what the ideal society looks like, but I try to focus my political thinking on the here and now rather than on distant goals. I really think that Bernstein was onto something fundamental when he said that "the movement means everything": what matters isn't the final destination, it's the direction you take. Political movements that seek to create a better society have generally done a lot more good than those that have sought a perfect society.

[Blue3]

Yes, but you need to have a destination/vision in mind in order to have any direction.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Yes, but you need to have a destination/vision in mind in order to have any direction.

To some extent, yes. But I think the most important thing to remember is that whatever our destination might be, it will never be the final destination - there will always be something else beyond. And it doesn't really matter if the destination is reached or not: in fact, most of the time I fully know it won't. In the end, all that really matters is that we've made a few steps in the right direction.

[Blue3]

So what is the right direction to move towards, if never fully reach?

[Antonio the Sixth]

So what is the right direction to move towards, if never fully reach?

The way that I think it would be more useful to put it right now would be along the lines of what Per Albin Hansson called the "People's Home" (Folkhemmet), a society where everyone is equally valued and cared for, where there are "no special favorites and no stepchildren." These are the ideals that I believe modern society needs to embrace in order to fight against the tendency toward selfishness, distrust and hatred of everything "other". My current display name is also, in part, a tribute to this spirit (Jante's Law is something distinct from the Folkhemmet, but I think the two reinforce each other). But the important thing to remember is that these same ideals, applied to a different context, might actually do more harm than good. That's what happened to many ideals in history, and that is why I'm wary of putting too much emphasis on them.

[Intell]

Everyone should have their ideal utopian world, and try to achieve it. Antiono's vision's similar to mine but a bit different, I'll probably type of my vision when I have the time to.

[Blue3]

Everyone has at least a dream of an ideal world, whether they're religious/spiritual or not... any more visions people are willing to share?

[Georg Ebner]

Heaven = AntiUtopia
Hell = Utopia

Heaven is, where all "humanists"/"idealists"/... "fighting for a better world" with "good will" - i.e. all bourgeois rats - are beaten to death.
Hell is, where utopia is no longer ou-topia (=NonPlace); where all human ideologies are fulfilled.

[Enduro]

I will just describe the closest thing to Heaven I experienced. At my summer camp, there is a thing we do called hymn sing. It's what it says on the tin. Except, imagine over 100 teenagers each with their own story coming from many backgrounds coming together to sing at the top of their voice. Black, white, asian, male, female, straight, gay, we even had a few old people who were kids at heart. None of those usual prejudices mattered. All that mattered was that we were together, and had an opportunity to show God love. We gave it our all.
One song we would sing, In Christ Alone, was especially emotional. By time we would get to the third verse, I'd be in tears. I'd look around trying to see if anyone could see me crying, and all I saw was my friends trying to hide their tears from me. In the middle of the song, we'd just hug. A moment of pure emotion shared between brothers and sisters.

No power of hell, no scheme of man
Can ever pluck me from his hand
For I am His, and He is mine
Bought with the precious blood of Christ

To this day, I can't listen to this song without fighting back the waterworks. It and my brothers and sisters are forever dedicated to a special place in my heart.

[HillGoose]

Heaven consists of me and about 4 other humans, the rest of the planet is ruled by Canadian geese. All the other humans live on another planet where they do whatever the hell they want and won't bother me.

Earthly Paradise or political utopia is a world ruled by American global hegemon, technology having advanced to the point that human beings no longer have to suffer from disease or poverty.

[Blue3]

Does anyone else want to be brave, open up, and describe their vision of what a better world would be?

[HillGoose]

We don't know if heaven is a place in the afterlife, and the world will never be paradise. It's not possible, and that's okay.

Heaven, or paradise, would be incredibly boring when you think about it.