Do you want to have kids? (user search)
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  Do you want to have kids? (search mode)
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Question: Huh
#1
Yes/Already do
 
#2
No
 
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Total Voters: 93

Author Topic: Do you want to have kids?  (Read 9616 times)
TheDeadFlagBlues
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,987
Canada
« on: September 21, 2016, 05:53:04 AM »
« edited: September 21, 2016, 06:09:58 AM by TheDeadFlagBlues »

No.

Kids are very expensive. I'd prefer to spend one million dollars on early retirement or a year-long world tour etc. Maybe it's the inner "dismal scientist" lurking inside of me but these considerations matter a great deal to me and I don't feel ashamed about them in the slightest. We live very limited lives and I'd like to spend my life doing anything but changing diapers, giving kids stern lectures to not throw poop on the walls etc.

Another thing that I've considered is that it's weird of me to have a desire to have children when, um, I would not be the one who's pregnant or the one who's expected to take care of the kid etc. If one is a man, one must remember that the desire to have kids is hardly noble. It's a desire to have something that generates acknowledgement in society without all that many risks/consequences.
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TheDeadFlagBlues
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,987
Canada
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2016, 03:00:01 PM »

You know, it is possible to be a dad that, call me crazy, is equal (or greater) than mom when it comes to taking care of the kids.  Sure, a lot of dad's don't, but a lot of dads do too.

I don't know why you'd think you wouldn't be expected to take care of any kids you might have.  Did something change since I was a young dad?  It was certainly expected that I would help with the kids, and I did.  I've changed thousands of diapers, walked kids to school hundreds of times, driven them thousands of times, never said I was "babysitting" when mom was away.

Millennials get stranger everyday.  It's like we're going backwards sometimes.

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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-26/women-in-the-u-s-still-do-way-more-housework-than-men
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TheDeadFlagBlues
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,987
Canada
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2016, 12:23:10 AM »
« Edited: September 22, 2016, 12:34:45 AM by TheDeadFlagBlues »

This very likely falls under the umbrella of 'easier said than done', but wouldn't one think a simple solution to that, as an individual man in a specific couple trying to decide whether or not to have children, would be to resolve to do more housework and child care and monitor oneself to make sure one does?

Also it's, you know, unbelievably creepy that you think that men who want kids want them only or primarily in order 'to have something that generates acknowledgement in society', but, you know, whatever. (For the record, even if this is true, it's better solved by cultivating more constructive attitudes towards children and fatherhood, not avoiding fatherhood on principle because the desire to be a father is somehow inherently bad.)

Sure and, yet, that rarely happens and there's something our social structures that is so durable that even the most well-intentioned man inevitably does less housework than his partner. Why this is so is not difficult to understand: men are socialized to not care about messes to the same degree that women are and this creates a "natural" division of labor. None of this is fair, of course, but it's easily explained and it's hard to change the dynamics of this.

There's nothing unbelievably creepy about what I've stated. I'm noting a social fact: that there are social rewards associated with having children. They give you an inner sense of purpose but also a kind of external acknowledgement that your life matters and has value. These are important psychological needs. I'm not devaluing these needs by acknowledging their existence nor am I devaluing children by doing so. I brought these facts up to discuss why it might be, uh, problematic to want to have many kids if one is a man because it's not a lot of work for us in comparison to what having kids entails for women. It's worth reflecting upon and being conscious of, I think. It doesn't naturally lead one to certain positions but it could if one is honest.

Seeing as I'm 22, is it really weird that I'm terrified at the idea of being a parent? This is a pretty normal stance among young people and for good reason: for most us, the prospect of being a parent anytime soon is irresponsible. Because I'm from Idaho, I know some people who are parents and they're all parents by accident. These situations are, almost as a rule, very dire and tend to have bad outcomes, particularly in a country where wages are low and families are rarely stable.
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TheDeadFlagBlues
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,987
Canada
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2016, 12:36:36 AM »

I read 'If one is a man, one must remember that the desire to have kids is hardly noble. It's a desire to have something that generates acknowledgement in society without all that many risks/consequences.' as implying that it was always and only that, which I still maintain would be an extremely creepy thing to say. My mistake.

I mean, I understand why you might be defensive about this. You live in a very different part of the country and it might be universal for people to bash the idea of having children. I'm defensive because it feels like half of my graduating class has kids at this point and I'm terrified that this is happening.

It's hard to "do you" without being insecure if everyone else is doing the opposite.
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