Should prisons be abolished?

[Virginiá]

Prisoners should be covered by the minimum wage just like any worker.

Let's charge them rent then.

Rent for a cage they are being held against their will in? I think there is a difference between that and fair labor regulations.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

Prisoners should be covered by the minimum wage just like any worker.

Let's charge them rent then.

Rent for a cage they are being held against their will in? I think there is a difference between that and fair labor regulations.

Well, his point is that there needs to be some adjustment from the minimum wage to factor for not needing to cover housing. Otherwise, it becomes more desirable than working for minimum wage and having to pay for housing for some.

[Santander]

Prisoners should be covered by the minimum wage just like any worker.

Let's charge them rent then.

Rent for a cage they are being held against their will in? I think there is a difference between that and fair labor regulations.

Well, his point is that there needs to be some adjustment from the minimum wage to factor for not needing to cover housing. Otherwise, it becomes more desirable than working for minimum wage and having to pay for housing for some.

Yes, this is exactly right.

[RFayette]

Prisoners should be covered by the minimum wage just like any worker.

Let's charge them rent then.

Rent for a cage they are being held against their will in? I think there is a difference between that and fair labor regulations.

Well, his point is that there needs to be some adjustment from the minimum wage to factor for not needing to cover housing. Otherwise, it becomes more desirable than working for minimum wage and having to pay for housing for some.

Yup.  Though I'm still curious as to how you would use hospitals to punish prisoners instead of prisons.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

Prisoners should be covered by the minimum wage just like any worker.

Let's charge them rent then.

Rent for a cage they are being held against their will in? I think there is a difference between that and fair labor regulations.

Well, his point is that there needs to be some adjustment from the minimum wage to factor for not needing to cover housing. Otherwise, it becomes more desirable than working for minimum wage and having to pay for housing for some.

Yup.  Though I'm still curious as to how you would use hospitals to rehabilitate misguided souls instead of prisons.

fixed, and there are different degrees of crime

[RFayette]

Prisoners should be covered by the minimum wage just like any worker.

Let's charge them rent then.

Rent for a cage they are being held against their will in? I think there is a difference between that and fair labor regulations.

Well, his point is that there needs to be some adjustment from the minimum wage to factor for not needing to cover housing. Otherwise, it becomes more desirable than working for minimum wage and having to pay for housing for some.

Yup.  Though I'm still curious as to how you would use hospitals to rehabilitate prisoners instead of prisons.

fixed, and there are different degrees of crime

I know, but you said you'd abolish prisons altogether and I believe you're against the death penalty as well.

I'd be very curious what kind of hospital "treatment" you'd give to Bernie Madoff and the like. 

[Virginiá]

What would you consider the best deterrent then?  I certainly agree that poverty is a big problem, but what do we do once someone has committed a crime?  I still maintain that prison is the best solution we've got for felons, but I am curious what alternatives you suggest.  

Well, I didn't say that prison itself was a bad idea. Some people can't be helped and are too dangerous. But for those that are, I merely suggest that when they are put in prison, that things be radically different:

1. No hostile environment (no gangs/etc). This would require some significant changes in drug policy, conveniently something this country is long overdue for. I'm sure lots more would need to be done to make the prison environments less hostile, but I'm not going to pretend like I have all the answers off the top of my head either.

2. No more arbitrarily long prison sentences crafted by politicians who just want to look tough on crime.

3. When in prison, assess each prisoner and try to figure out the root of their problem. Addicts should get a long, effective rehabilitation. Others that engaged in criminal activity largely out of poverty should be taught a skill that is both in demand and relevant in the area they will be released to. Prisoners can work in prison to pay for such training. Intensive therapy should be provided to those with troublesome behavior problems.

4. Provide work opportunities to felons/people with records who can't otherwise get jobs that pay livable wages. If you cage someone for years, they will likely need help readjusting, and that can be very difficult without proper assistance. Give incentives to some businesses to hire some ex-cons and ban the box.

5. Give them back their freakin voting rights for christs sakes. This is a stupid, vindictive measure that serves no real purpose and is counter-productive. Some studies have shown that this does indeed reduce recidivism rates, which at face value kind of makes sense. Don't relegate them to 2nd class status just out of spite: http://thecrimereport.org/2011/08/09/2011-08-a-solution-to-recidivism-let-ex-offenders-vote/   (fair warning: I'm all about voting rights so I'm biased on this as well)

6. Stop prohibiting so many felons from getting low income housing. Many of these people can't even live with family in such housing. Again, these are unnecessary restrictions that can have significant effects on the person's ability to get back on their feet. If they are too violent/sex offenders, then build out other places for those people to live. If we actually care about reducing recidivism and making these people into functional, contributing citizens again, we have to address this issue.

7. Stop criminalizing so many things. Make prison the last option. Stop allowing prosecutors to use plea deals as a way to force people to concede. Something like 94% of federal cases end in plea deals because the prosecutors threaten the defendants with huge penalties if they take it to trial and lose. Many people, even innocent people, don't want to risk this. It's a huge problem and it's undermining our justice system.

8. The drug war needs to end. I sort of got at this in #1, but we need to stop sending people to jail/prison for drugs. Criminalizing drugs has fed gangs with endless revenue and empowered them to create even more violence on our streets. Meanwhile, more people than ever use drugs. Criminalizing doesn't work and only empowers criminals and promotes violence. However we want to address it, it needs to stop. What we are doing now is completely ineffective.

9. Poverty drives criminal behavior, and I suggest we put more effort into giving low-income/needy citizens more work opportunities and thus reduce the propensity for crime in some of these communities. I dunno how we'd go about this, but we should start doing more on this front.

10. No more solitary confinement except for very short periods of time (1-2 weeks). Only the very most violent, uncontrollable people should be put in such conditions. Solitary confinement is cruel and unusual punishment and severely damages people mentally.

I'm sure there are many more things we can, and I only wrote what came to me off the top of my head here, but the point is we have to radically change everything about our criminal justice system if we actually want to make things better. What we have now is an abomination that has been left to fester for decades and it is totally unacceptable at this point.

The annoying thing to me is that many of these things we can do, but so many politicians care more about reelection and looking "tough" that they ignore the problem and even make it worse. People need to stop being so revenge-oriented towards criminals. Our society has a huge problem with this. So many act like the only proper way to treat criminals and felons is to sh**t on them daily and make their lives needlessly difficult.

[Torie]

Interestingly, in the Dutch colony of New Amsterdam, the only prisons were debtor's prisons. For those convicted of a crime, it was either death (which happened often, with the executions by hanging in public every Saturday up Broadway a bit (if a black murdered a white it was burning at the stake)), or a fine. There was nothing in-between. No, we need prisons, but we also need halfway houses. In prison, and then out on the street with no money and no job and no skills for legal gainful employment, is not a good way to wean folks from a life of crime. Oh wait, they also had deportation. Trump would have liked that!

Before one bashes on the Dutch too much, I should note that the Dutch law allowed married women to own property, while English law did not. When the English took over New Amsterdam, that led to some interesting legal cases in property law.

That's my trivia contribution for the week. You're welcome.

[Hilldog]

What would we do with prisoners if prisons were abolished?

[GliddenVarnish]

As someone who went to prison for four days for selling bad paint, I think prisons are good. They helped me learn why what I did was wrong, and I haven't sold bad paint since!

[Mercenary]

No.

But I am all for significantly changing the criminal justice system.
Non-violent drug use should not be criminalized for starters.
No more three strikes your out kind of policy either.

But things like murder or rape should result in being thrown in prison for life. We need prisons for the real scumbags. But for lesser crimes, I am fine with having more of a rehabilitation emphasis.

[Associate Justice PiT]

No.

But I am all for significantly changing the criminal justice system.
Non-violent drug use should not be criminalized for starters.
No more three strikes your out kind of policy either.

But things like murder or rape should result in being thrown in prison for life. We need prisons for the real scumbags. But for lesser crimes, I am fine with having more of a rehabilitation emphasis.

    I've long been in favor of eliminating drug offenses. I could get behind a general move away from imprisoning for low-level offenses.

[Badger]

Well?

yes prisons do nothing but hold the black people hostage for stuff when they clearly say, "dindu nuffin"

Fu$k off, Nazi scum.

[This account no longer in use.]

Well?

yes prisons do nothing but hold the black people hostage for stuff when they clearly say, "dindu nuffin"

Anyone who uses the phrase 'dindu nuffin' unironically does not have an opinion worth listening to.

[I’m not Stu]

Well?

yes prisons do nothing but hold the black people hostage for stuff when they clearly say, "dindu nuffin"

Anyone who uses the phrase 'dindu nuffin' unironically does not have an opinion worth listening to.

Exactly, anyone who uses that phrase doesn't have an opinion worth listening to, like David Duke, who used the phrase here: https://twitter.com/drdavidduke/status/753057075182178304
That is a bad idea. Prisons shouldn't be abolished, that is wacky. Abolishing prisons would allow dangerous criminals to roam free.

[Storebought]

Private for-profit prisons certainly should be.