Should prisons be abolished?

[Seneca]

Well?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Totally? Won't work.

[Enduro]

Is this a joke? Please be a joke.

[Virginiá]

No, but they should undergo significant changes designed to actually rehabilitate people and significantly reduce recidivism. Right now, we basically have large, well-secured buildings that store humans in cages/concrete rooms and not a whole lot else that is effective in positively modifying their behavior. It's the equivalent of sweeping the problem under the carpet, except this is human beings we are talking about. It's an awful system. We can also blame the drug war for creating extremely hostile conditions in many state/federal prisons, but that is another discussion entirely.

Unfortunately, some people can't be rehabilitated and won't change, and dangerous people have to go somewhere for x amount of time, but I think the number of these kinds of people is far less than the total prison population as of 2016.

You would think that as complex creatures capable of such technological wonders, we would at least try other ways to rehabilitate criminals, but nope, many are content focusing 100% of their efforts on finding ways to punish and humiliate any and all criminals and then later complain how they keep re-offending after release.

Fking heartless and stone age bullsh**t.

[Seneca]

Totally? Won't work.

Why?

[RFayette]

We could, but it would require a greatly enhanced use of the death penalty for most violent crimes as well as corporal punishment and massive fines/restitution (think the Mosaic laws in the Old Testament, but only applied to violent/property crimes/embezzlement therein).   There'd also have to be an arrangement of indentured servitude/selling oneself into slavery for those unable to pay off the debts, which very well may resemble current "plantation" style prisons in the South.

[angus]

We could, but it would require a greatly enhanced use of the death penalty for most violent crimes

Great minds think alike.  That was my first thought as well.

Still, the frequency and intensity of incarceration should decrease.  Prisons as they exist now are publicly-funded, expensive, brutal training academies that turn misfits into thugs.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Still, the frequency and intensity of incarceration should decrease.  Prisons as they exist now are publicly-funded, expensive, brutal training academies that turn misfits into thugs.

Absolutely.

I think the society must retain options to protect itself by incarcerating certain individuals, but the whole chain-gang mentality must be finally defeated.

[Buffalo Bill]

So certain voters can roam free and fight the cause on behalf of certain politicians? Marijuana should be legalized and other drugs decriminalized.  Offer rehabilitation for the first few drug violations instead of prison sentences. One thing I'd like to see offered is classes teaching job skills to inmates so they can have better success finding employment after incarceration if they'd like.  Also, abolish the death penalty.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Exactly what Virginia said.

[Antonio the Sixth]

There'd also have to be an arrangement of indentured servitude/selling oneself into slavery for those unable to pay off the debts, which very well may resemble current "plantation" style prisons in the South.

...seriously?

[Buffalo Bill]

No, but they should undergo significant changes designed to actually rehabilitate people and significantly reduce recidivism. Right now, we basically have large, well-secured buildings that store humans in cages/concrete rooms and not a whole lot else that is effective in positively modifying their behavior. It's the equivalent of sweeping the problem under the carpet, except this is human beings we are talking about. It's an awful system. We can also blame the drug war for creating extremely hostile conditions in many state/federal prisons, but that is another discussion entirely.

Unfortunately, some people can't be rehabilitated and won't change, and dangerous people have to go somewhere for x amount of time, but I think the number of these kinds of people is far less than the total prison population as of 2016.

You would think that as complex creatures capable of such technological wonders, we would at least try other ways to rehabilitate criminals, but nope, many are content focusing 100% of their efforts on finding ways to punish and humiliate any and all criminals and then later complain how they keep re-offending after release.

Fking heartless and stone age bullsh**t.

If you're talking about drugs then I completely agree Virginia.  We need to be offering rehabilitation in exchange for prison sentences unless the person absolutely prefers to be in jail.  Also, I'd like to see job skills classes offered by the states so prisoners can keep their job skills while incarcerated.  I know the latter won't do too much but if it helps a few people here and there it's worth our tax dollars. 

[Goldwater]

lol, no.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

No, they'll need to be kept to keep the worst of the worst contained from society. Ideally, most non-extreme crimes can be dealt with in other ways.

[RFayette]

There'd also have to be an arrangement of indentured servitude/selling oneself into slavery for those unable to pay off the debts, which very well may resemble current "plantation" style prisons in the South.

...seriously?

My point was, if we abolish prison sentences, the most likely replacement would be the death penalty for violent crimes and for nonviolent crimes, heavy restitution and possible corporal punishment, a similar arrangement we see to the Mosaic laws pertaining to violent and property crime.  In order to make people who are indigent pay that restitution, if they have no way of being able to pay within a specified timeframe (or are unable to get a job), then we may have to have a system of debt slavery (and facilities therein) in order to ensure restitution is paid.

I don't really support this as I think modern society is very different (though I do favor the greatly expanded use of the death penalty); all I'm saying is, if you get rid of prisons, this is what you would end up with.

[Virginiá]

My point was, if we abolish prison sentences, the most likely replacement would be the death penalty for violent crimes and for nonviolent crimes, heavy restitution and possible corporal punishment, a similar arrangement we see to the Mosaic laws pertaining to violent and property crime.  In order to make people who are indigent pay that restitution, if they have no way of being able to pay within a specified timeframe (or are unable to get a job), then we may have to have a system of debt slavery (and facilities therein) in order to ensure restitution is paid.

I don't really support this as I think modern society is very different (though I do favor the greatly expanded use of the death penalty); all I'm saying is, if you get rid of prisons, this is what you would end up with.

People who owe money can already have their wages garnished or bank account levied.

I think this country can do a lot better than any kind of *slavery and corporal punishment, fayette... How about, if crime is going to be a persistent feature of human civilization, then perhaps anyone convicted of a crime can be required to pitch in a small amount in taxes (for life, or maybe 20 years or something) to a sort of "national crime insurance", which anyone who is the victim of can get assistance from when restitution can't be paid in full.

Honestly, no offense fayette but I seriously think you are reading/have read too much scripture!

[Santander]

Yes, just send the convicts to Australia.

[RFayette]

My point was, if we abolish prison sentences, the most likely replacement would be the death penalty for violent crimes and for nonviolent crimes, heavy restitution and possible corporal punishment, a similar arrangement we see to the Mosaic laws pertaining to violent and property crime.  In order to make people who are indigent pay that restitution, if they have no way of being able to pay within a specified timeframe (or are unable to get a job), then we may have to have a system of debt slavery (and facilities therein) in order to ensure restitution is paid.

I don't really support this as I think modern society is very different (though I do favor the greatly expanded use of the death penalty); all I'm saying is, if you get rid of prisons, this is what you would end up with.

People who owe money can already have their wages garnished or bank account levied.

I think this country can do a lot better than any kind of *slavery and corporal punishment, fayette... How about, if crime is going to be a persistent feature of human civilization, then perhaps anyone convicted of a crime can be required to pitch in a small amount in taxes (for life, or maybe 20 years or something) to a sort of "national crime insurance", which anyone who is the victim of can get assistance from when restitution can't be paid in full.

Honestly, no offense fayette but I seriously think you are reading/have read too much scripture!

My point was that many criminals do not make regular income (except from committing other crimes).  One reason we put burglars, robbers, etc. in prison is so that they don't have the capacity to reoffend (at least for the duration of their prison term).  If we penalize them with an additional amount on their income tax [or perhaps a lump sum], then they either won't be able to pay and have no wages to garnish or they pay those taxes from money they made while committing other crimes.  If we don't have prison as a penalty, then we run into a real problem:  people can continue to steal as much as they want, and so long as they are "off the grid" in a sense (no permanent residence, traveling place to place to commit more crimes), they won't ever really be held to account for their actions unless there is a way to force restitution.

My point is that while I do think prison sentences are too long, I don't really see a workable alternative unless we pursue practices which you (and most others, including myself to an extent) may find unsavory

[Virginiá]

My point is that while I do think prison sentences are too long, I don't really see a workable alternative unless we pursue practices which you (and most others, including myself to an extent) may find unsavory

Flogging people (among other punishments) isn't the best deterrent, though. People are already aware of the fact that they can go to prison and lose years of their life for committing certain crimes, and they still do it anyway. Many think they won't get caught, and often they do. Such punishment really changes nothing. Extreme poverty often drives crime, and the best way fix the crime issue is to fix the poverty issue.

Further, regarding debt slavery, how much are these slaves paid then? Is this a situation where we sentence them to do work that a regular citizen may get, say, $7/hr for, and we pay the prisoners 0.59¢/hr? Because that seems to be what we do now. I have a hard time seeing prisoners being paid fair wages that they can use to pay restitution, especially because you'd have scores of terrible lawmakers and advocacy groups coming up with tons of lame excuses of why inmates should get paid pennies on the dollar, which is complete and utter bs and one of several reasons why this idea is awful.

It's a moot discussion anyhow, as I don't see any of these ideas going anywhere, especially when African Americans are still disproportionately imprisoned. When you start throwing around the word 'slavery' again, with pictures leaked of black inmates being whipped for breaking various rules/laws, all hell would break loose

[RFayette]

My point is that while I do think prison sentences are too long, I don't really see a workable alternative unless we pursue practices which you (and most others, including myself to an extent) may find unsavory

Flogging people (among other punishments) isn't the best deterrent, though. People are already aware of the fact that they can go to prison and lose years of their life for committing certain crimes, and they still do it anyway. Many think they won't get caught, and often they do. Such punishment really changes nothing. Extreme poverty often drives crime, and the best way fix the crime issue is to fix the poverty issue.

What would you consider the best deterrent then?  I certainly agree that poverty is a big problem, but what do we do once someone has committed a crime?  I still maintain that prison is the best solution we've got for felons, but I am curious what alternatives you suggest. 

As far as "slavery" was concerned, I had never really thought of specifics as it would go nowhere.  I remember Mike Huckabee had suggested it on a radio show when it came to dealing with criminals.  But I don't think most people would consider that humane and as such, it seems we don't really have an alternative to prisons then.

[DC Al Fine]

I've always liked the idea of a literal slap on the wrist for very minor crimes.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

Is this a situation where we sentence them to do work that a regular citizen may get, say, $7/hr for, and we pay the prisoners 0.59¢/hr?

$7 is already a slave wage. Admittedly, these people have 'housing' (ugh, it feels sick to call it that), 'medical' (lol, I mean, no worse than parts of America) and food (...), so it may work for them.

But I don't think most people would consider that humane and as such, it seems we don't really have an alternative to prisons then.

Hospitals.

[RFayette]

If $7 an hour is a slave wage, then that's a slavery the vast majority of the world would be thrilled to get access to.

So your suggestion is to put all criminals in hospitals instead of prisons?  Wouldn't the conditions soon resemble a prison anyway with so many inmates?  You'd need guards, chain violent inmates to the bed, etc.  And many are not mentally ill anyways, so I do not get how that would do anything.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Prisoners should be covered by the minimum wage just like any worker.

[Santander]

Prisoners should be covered by the minimum wage just like any worker.

Let's charge them rent then.