Bernie did worse to Hillary than what Nader did to Al Gore

[uti2]

 The original polls with Hillary had her crushing any GOP candidate back in early 2015 and before. She was damaged by Bernie's nader-style attacks, the GOP would've needed that type of mild handicap to even be competitive with clinton, yet still in such a gore-bush race, unlike in 2000, the demographics of the electoral map have shifted to the dems favor, so hillary would still be favored to win in terms of the EV map as state polling showed vs. anyone except kasich if you looked at swing state polls in oh, va, etc. Kasich was the only candidate out of all those who ran who polled EV-wise ahead of her.

By Bernie staying in longer than he was supposed to, instead of dropping out in feb/mar, it was done in the context of Trump and contested convention talk on the R side, if bernie had dropped out earlier like he was supposed to, it would've given hillary more time to consolidate the traditional dem base, and go after the typical republican 'koch puppet'. The dynamics of the race would've completely changed. Bernie additionally weakened Hillary by staying in so long, so he gave Trump an even bigger handicap, than he would've to another GOP candidate in a trumpless race where he would've dropped out sooner. Still, the fact that the Republicans needed an external handicap on Hillary to even make their own candidates remotely competitive in the first place, shows that hillary was not that bad of a candidate on her own. Early polls had her running ahead of biden vs. all the republican competition easily like I said.

[Virginiá]

I do think Sanders damaged her quite a bit with Millennials, but she is not entitled to no primary challenger. I'm not glossing over this - Hillary has way too many problems. It's not even about whether her problems are valid, made up, or whatever. They exist in peoples minds, and it's hobbled her campaign a good bit.

Millennials don't trust or like her now. Sanders did hurt a lot, but it's possible these things would have hurt her later on anyway. Impossible to say now. Regardless of what Bernie did or didn't do, Hillary went into this campaign with a lot of baggage and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't very annoyed that her constant problems have become the only thing the media talks about when they aren't talking about Trump.

[Maxwell]

if we're really whining about "muh bernie sanders", we're losing.

[Shadows]

I think the people who chose Hillary are responsible directly for what happens?

Bernie is responsible because she is a scam tainted candidate with the Clinton Foundation Corruption?
Bernie is responsible because she send classified emails form her personal server
Bernie is responsible because she lies at every time?
Bernie is responsible because is war monger & a hawk?

Bernie should drop out in Feb because he won 22 states, including 70-80% in many states in landslide victories?

Hillary is the worst Democrat candidate in the last 100 years, one of the biggest liers & corrupt of all candidates! You guy are responsible for directly electing Trump by choosing her!

[uti2]

I do think Sanders damaged her quite a bit with Millennials, but she is not entitled to no primary challenger. I'm not glossing over this - Hillary has way too many problems. It's not even about whether her problems are valid, made up, or whatever. They exist in peoples minds, and it's hobbled her campaign a good bit.

Millennials don't trust or like her now. Sanders did hurt a lot, but it's possible these things would have hurt her later on anyway. Impossible to say now. Regardless of what Bernie did or didn't do, Hillary went into this campaign with a lot of baggage and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't very annoyed that her constant problems have become the only thing the media talks about when they aren't talking about Trump.

There is no way, Booker or Biden would've damaged her like this. They wouldn't have attacked her on Goldman Sachs, etc. Nader used specific, 'Gore might as well be a Republican, he's not a progressive, and he's not qualified, etc.' attacks that Bernie used against Hillary in the primary in the exact same fashion. Hillary was specifically weakened with progressives, the same exact thing happened to Gore in 2000.

[uti2]

I think the people who chose Hillary are responsible directly for what happens?

Bernie is responsible because she is a scam tainted candidate with the Clinton Foundation Corruption?
Bernie is responsible because she send classified emails form her personal server
Bernie is responsible because she lies at every time?
Bernie is responsible because is war monger & a hawk?

Bernie should drop out in Feb because he won 22 states, including 70-80% in many states in landslide victories?

Hillary is the worst Democrat candidate in the last 100 years, one of the biggest liers & corrupt of all candidates! You guy are responsible for directly electing Trump by choosing her!

Powell/Rice had similar email issues. Dems voted for 'hawkish' obama's reelection, and Warren/Gabbard are also hawks.

Bernie's outsider narrative was directly emboldened and made possible due to Trump, without that, there would be no justification, and the media would've come down hard on him and forced him out, there would've been a lot less enthusiasm/excitement, as he'd just be 'crazy guy without a chance'.

[BlueSwan]

I don't blame Bernie for challenging Clinton.

I don't blame Bernie for staying in until the end.

I don't blame Bernie for his actions after Clinton won - he has done what he needed to do.

What I DO blame Bernie for is how he fed the "Clinton is currupt" narrative, which is really the main thing that is holding her back and the main thing that is hurting her with millenials. This was always the one thing that could cost her the election and indeed, if she does end up losing, this will be the main cause of that loss.

[Lyin' Steve]

Is anyone other than Shadows and other knee-jerk Bernie apologists really disputing this?  All the Republicans know and are thankful that Bernie recklessly damaged Hillary.  All the Clinton fans are painfully familiar with exactly how it all went down.  And the millennials who now hate Hillary because of Bernie are aware of it too, they just think it's a good think that Bernie opened their eyes.

[StatesPoll]

wrong.

Bernie Sanders: I'm Still Sick And Tired Of Hillary's Emails  <---- which saved hillary.

if Sanders didn't say that. Hillary's poll numbers vs TRUMP, at least 3% less than now.(perhaps 5%)

[Lyin' Steve]

wrong.

Bernie Sanders: I'm Still Sick And Tired Of Hillary's Emails  <---- which saved hillary.

if Sanders didn't say that. Hillary's poll numbers vs TRUMP, at least 3% less than now.(perhaps 5%)

lol, yeah woo boy sure glad Bernie took the heat off Hillary for her emails, sure woulda been bad if the whole email thing had blown up

[Blair]

I don't blame Bernie for challenging Clinton.

I don't blame Bernie for staying in until the end.

I don't blame Bernie for his actions after Clinton won - he has done what he needed to do.

What I DO blame Bernie for is how he fed the "Clinton is currupt" narrative, which is really the main thing that is holding her back and the main thing that is hurting her with millenials. This was always the one thing that could cost her the election and indeed, if she does end up losing, this will be the main cause of that loss.

My impression was that he didn't really expand this thread until after Super-Tuesday. He ran in Michigan basically saying Hillary has taken your jobs, and then said in NY that she's unfit to be POTUS

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Again, none of this was a problem when Hillary was leading Trump in Utah a month ago.

Drop the excuses.  At this rate it looks as though the Sanders voters have moved on from the primary faster than the hardcore Clinton apologists.  And it's not just millennials who are skeptical of Clinton, so just drop it.

[Adam Griffin]

If people think the notion of "Corrupt Hillary" or "Crooked Hillary" wouldn't have existed without Sanders - or a primary challenger at all - then they're horribly deluded. With that being said, having a candidate who was such a contrast to that really riled up and activated the kooky, apathetic leftists in this country. Getting a bunch of these low-information types together on social media while feeding them a deluge of inaccurate blog posts and spicy memes is a recipe for political disaster.

[uti2]

If people think the notion of "Corrupt Hillary" or "Crooked Hillary" wouldn't have existed without Sanders - or a primary challenger at all - then they're horribly deluded. With that being said, having a candidate who was such a contrast to that really riled up and activated the kooky, apathetic leftists in this country. Getting a bunch of these low-information types together on social media while feeding them a deluge of inaccurate blog posts and spicy memes is a recipe for political disaster.

The other potential mainline democrats a la Booker or Biden wouldn't have attacked in that fashion, and would've focused on 'Koch republican corruption'.

Those leftists were already willing to vote for her, hence her initial sky-high numbers, after all, they already voted in bulk for obama in '12.

Again, none of this was a problem when Hillary was leading Trump in Utah a month ago.

Drop the excuses.  At this rate it looks as though the Sanders voters have moved on from the primary faster than the hardcore Clinton apologists.  And it's not just millennials who are skeptical of Clinton, so just drop it.

Trump honestly didn't know the reason why he was so popular in the primary, initially, like Cruz he believed it was due to his personality/media attention, so he just made crazy statements on the regular. Then he hired Bannon who told him a little bit about the 'altright', etc. Then Hillary's speech, ironically, probably had a role in educating Trump even more on his own popularity with the base. So now he's listening more to his advisers who are more in tune with that world than he is, he is just a marketing guy.

[Eraserhead]

if we're really whining about "muh bernie sanders", we're losing.

Maxwell gets it as usual.

[elcorazon]

I don't blame Bernie for challenging Clinton.

I don't blame Bernie for staying in until the end.

I don't blame Bernie for his actions after Clinton won - he has done what he needed to do.

What I DO blame Bernie for is how he fed the "Clinton is currupt" narrative, which is really the main thing that is holding her back and the main thing that is hurting her with millenials. This was always the one thing that could cost her the election and indeed, if she does end up losing, this will be the main cause of that loss.

agreed

[Inmate Trump]

I voted Bernie.

But he went negative, and he did cause a lot of the current negativity surrounding Hillary...or at least, feed into it and bring it to light.  He also took millennials away from her, even after the primaries.  And if she loses because of the millennial vote, a lot of the blame can be directed at him.

I'm not giving Clinton a pass; a lot of the negativity is deserved because of her own baggage (but some of it is also NOT deserved).  Bernie brought a lot of it forward, in much the same way Trump has done/is doing.

[‼realJohnEwards‼]

I do think that he exacerbated her trust issues, especially among Millenials, but keep in mind that the emails thing was there anyway, and that Trump would have taken advantage of it either way.

[uti2]

I do think that he exacerbated her trust issues, especially among Millenials, but keep in mind that the emails thing was there anyway, and that Trump would have taken advantage of it either way.

She just would've mentioned powell/rice, and it wouldn't have made any difference otherwise for progressives voting for her, same way benghazi didn't for obama with his base.

Her weaknesses are on the economic front, same for Gore due to Nader, and now Hillary due to Bernie.

E.G, the RNC email scandal did 0 damage to Mccain:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_White_House_email_controversy

Mccain was hurt due to foreign policy/iraq, and economic issues.

[‼realJohnEwards‼]

I do think that he exacerbated her trust issues, especially among Millenials, but keep in mind that the emails thing was there anyway, and that Trump would have taken advantage of it either way.

She just would've mentioned powell/rice, and it wouldn't have made any difference otherwise for progressives voting for her, same way benghazi didn't for obama with his base.

Her weaknesses are on the economic front, same for Gore due to Nader, and now Hillary due to Bernie.

E.G, the RNC email scandal did 0 damage to Mccain:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_White_House_email_controversy

Mccain was hurt due to foreign policy/iraq, and economic issues.

Um, Bernie didn't attack her on the emails. In fact, he was quite emphatic about it... something about the American people...

[NeverAgain]

The best way for Hillary to win is to attack a now strong ally and his supporters who make up close to half of the Democrats. Why aren't you guys running her campaign. I'm sure if she started making Bernie attack ads all the moderates would flock to her, and she'd win in a landslide.

Come on guys/gals. Are you going to blame Hillary's campaign for the reason Obama lost Missouri? We need to come together and put Hillary in the White House, and defeat Donald Trump. Not rehash the relatively gentle primary that occured.

[Xing]

Ugh, I really don't think we need to play another round of "Pin the Blame on the Bernie." Did Sanders go too far in a few of his attacks? Perhaps, but the idea the he is single-handed let responsible for Hillary's unpopularity among Millennials is ridiculous. Millennials have always distrusted Hillary, and many people are so passionate in their belief that Hillary is worse than the devil that they'll buy into any narrative against her, any scandal, and support any candidate that opposes her (Stalin, Satan, Donald Trump, you name it.) I told Clinton supporters during the primary that if they thought Sanders' attacks on her were bad, they would have a very rough time dealing with the GE, where anything at all would become fair game, and Republicans would show no restraint. Looks like some didn't get the memo.

Maxwell is precisely correct.

[uti2]

Ugh, I really don't think we need to play another round of "Pin the Blame on the Bernie." Did Sanders go too far in a few of his attacks? Perhaps, but the idea the he is single-handed let responsible for Hillary's unpopularity among Millennials is ridiculous. Millennials have always distrusted Hillary, and many people are so passionate in their belief that Hillary is worse than the devil that they'll buy into any narrative against her, any scandal, and support any candidate that opposes her (Stalin, Satan, Donald Trump, you name it.) I told Clinton supporters during the primary that if they thought Sanders' attacks on her were bad, they would have a very rough time dealing with the GE, where anything at all would become fair game, and Republicans would show no restraint. Looks like some didn't get the memo.

Maxwell is precisely correct.

They were overwhelmingly with her until Bernie's attacks,  as the polls showed her crushing every republican easily in early 2015. The point is this wouldn't be happening if her primary opponent had been a generic D like Booker or Biden, Bernie used specific Nader-style attacks.

Republican attacks are meaningless and empty partisan rhetoric if you can keep your base together, just like Obama did.

[Xing]

Ugh, I really don't think we need to play another round of "Pin the Blame on the Bernie." Did Sanders go too far in a few of his attacks? Perhaps, but the idea the he is single-handed let responsible for Hillary's unpopularity among Millennials is ridiculous. Millennials have always distrusted Hillary, and many people are so passionate in their belief that Hillary is worse than the devil that they'll buy into any narrative against her, any scandal, and support any candidate that opposes her (Stalin, Satan, Donald Trump, you name it.) I told Clinton supporters during the primary that if they thought Sanders' attacks on her were bad, they would have a very rough time dealing with the GE, where anything at all would become fair game, and Republicans would show no restraint. Looks like some didn't get the memo.

Maxwell is precisely correct.

They were overwhelmingly with her until Bernie's attacks,  as the polls showed her crushing every republican easily in early 2015. The point is this wouldn't be happening if her primary opponent had been a generic D like Booker or Biden, Bernie used specific Nader-style attacks.

Republican attacks are meaningless and empty partisan rhetoric if you can keep your base together, just like Obama did.

No, they really weren't. Hillary's been in the public eye for long enough that people who want to dislike her unfortunately have plenty of material to work with. She was crushing Republicans in 2015 because of name recognition, and the fact that the campaign hadn't started yet. She was never going to actually win by 15%. And yes, it would have happened with other Democrats, because they likely would have criticized her as well, and people would cling to those lines of criticism as their reason for disliking her.

Her "closeness to Wall Street" is not the underlying reason why people dislike her. It's just a convenient excuse some people make for their irrational hatred. I can tell you for a fact that many Millennials have always disliked Hillary, and that would not be any different had Sanders stayed out of the race.

[Speed of Sound]

Again, none of this was a problem when Hillary was leading Trump in Utah a month ago.

Drop the excuses.  At this rate it looks as though the Sanders voters have moved on from the primary faster than the hardcore Clinton apologists.  And it's not just millennials who are skeptical of Clinton, so just drop it.

Oh absolutely. Clinton apologists have been far more numerous and fierce in stomping on the party's progressives, even long after a crazy large number of them came home. Clinton's true supporters don't want progressives in the party, and they're more than happy to attack them, push them out, and tweak the system to make their lives worse and their voice weaker. They're the problem with the Democratic party.