Social democratic parties today
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Person Man
Angry_Weasel
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« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2016, 06:21:59 PM »


What would you rather have? Bob Casey/Gene Taylor / Marco Rubio opposition to Trump or a Mike Gravel/Gary Johnson style opposition?
To be honest, I might marginally prefer the former, but would expect the latter.

Whatdo you think will take for the pendulum to swing back do you think this was it for Humanism/Enlightenment?

No I don't think this is it, but the left needs to come up with better answers than what it has at the moment. I'm not exactly coming up with any excellent new insight by saying the left has lost its connection with its own base - because the answers it offers hark back to an era that doesn't really exist any more.

Otherwise, I don't understand your line of questioning, i don't feel particularly optimistic in the short term, because left wing parties manifestly are struggling; but I do feel more optimistic in the long run, because my own belief is the left wing has fundamentally the right diagnosis and the best policies.
I think you understand what I am asking. It could be that the main left ideology just hasn't caught up with technology and that the transformation of the right will align philosophy with ideology.
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parochial boy
parochial_boy
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« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2016, 06:25:44 PM »


What would you rather have? Bob Casey/Gene Taylor / Marco Rubio opposition to Trump or a Mike Gravel/Gary Johnson style opposition?
To be honest, I might marginally prefer the former, but would expect the latter.

Whatdo you think will take for the pendulum to swing back do you think this was it for Humanism/Enlightenment?

No I don't think this is it, but the left needs to come up with better answers than what it has at the moment. I'm not exactly coming up with any excellent new insight by saying the left has lost its connection with its own base - because the answers it offers hark back to an era that doesn't really exist any more.

Otherwise, I don't understand your line of questioning, i don't feel particularly optimistic in the short term, because left wing parties manifestly are struggling; but I do feel more optimistic in the long run, because my own belief is the left wing has fundamentally the right diagnosis and the best policies.
I think you understand what I am asking. It could be that the main left ideology just hasn't caught up with technology and that the transformation of the right will align philosophy with ideology.

Well yes the left hasn't caught up with technology, that is kind of what I was getting at..

But there is always going to be a place for redistributive, egalitarian politics; which is something that neither side of the right has any interest in.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2016, 06:51:36 PM »

Do we count the Italian Democrats as social Democrats?

Despite the fact that they are the surprising child of the DCs and PCI yes.
Interesting how Renzi has used Obama and Clinton as a model. Can socdems really use ordoliberals as a model for success?

These distinctions are (sadly) increasingly meaningless in the modern political context.
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VPH
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« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2016, 11:31:06 PM »

Portugal's PS is leading a coalition pretty effectively.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2016, 04:27:23 AM »

Razem - new left, some thing they are latte socialdemocrats, some think they are communists but as for now they have no influence on real politics so who cares.

But, but... I've read on my Facebook wall they are going to win the next election!
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2016, 04:28:52 AM »

Btw, could someone explain to me why in Portugal and Brazil centre-right parties (PSDB, PSD) are calling themselves "social democratic"?
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IceAgeComing
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« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2016, 06:32:58 AM »

I'm pretty sure that when they formed they were parties of the left (wiki seems to suggest that they applied to join the Socialist International before the Socialists vetoed their membership) as did most parties formed right after the Carnation revolution, and the just moved to the right over the years, I assume just to fill a gap and to make themselves viable as anything other than a niche centre-left party.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2016, 06:41:24 AM »

OK, I think we can say PSDB was a geniuine social democratic party in the 80s, with likes of Mario Covas.
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Hatman 🍁
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« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2016, 11:36:46 AM »

In a way, social democratic parties have been victims of their own success. They accomplished much of their goals in the post-war period and are struggling to re-invent themselves, often becoming champions of neo-liberalism as they triangulate towards the political centre. In the meantime, splintering their base as new leftist and/or environmental parties emerge.

Of course, their time will come again (or at least with a new re-aligned left) as we head into this new age of inequality and climate change. We're already seeing it with the rise of Bernie Sanders and (like him or not) Jeremy Corbyn.
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Person Man
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« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2016, 01:33:33 PM »

In a way, social democratic parties have been victims of their own success. They accomplished much of their goals in the post-war period and are struggling to re-invent themselves, often becoming champions of neo-liberalism as they triangulate towards the political centre. In the meantime, splintering their base as new leftist and/or environmental parties emerge.

Of course, their time will come again (or at least with a new re-aligned left) as we head into this new age of inequality and climate change. We're already seeing it with the rise of Bernie Sanders and (like him or not) Jeremy Corbyn.

Maybe the last world crisis set the stage for the New New Right as the Ordoliberals took over for a time and now the New Left will emerge as a result of the next crisis (once we megadeath scale war (Isn't Syria approaching a megadeath? It will definitely go to at least two if you count Assad winning and making sure another civil war is at least another 30 years off), pervasive double digit unemployment, or both). 

There are three possibilities for a new "Left"
- A liberal "left" that directly confronts Trumpism/Brexitism/Putinism  that is basically a left-libertarian neoglobalist thing that thinks it's "left" through helping the disadvantaged through negative means.  (you can say Gary Johnson is this type of "left")
- An ecologically centered left
- A hard old left ala Sanders/Corbyn emerges as the Alt-Right's policy makes the hard left's policies work and creates demand for them. However Trump's policies could just as much increase labor automation just as the traditional left is claim to do.
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