Social democratic parties today

[parochial boy]

It's no secret that the old establishment social democratic parties have struggled to come up with an adequate response to the way the world has gone in recent years.

They have failed to come up with a response to the rise of nationalism as a response to globalisation, and have failed to offer a convincing economic alternative to the "their is no other way" dogma of market liberalism, either choosing to sell out an adopt it (the French PS, Labour) or by clinging on to narratives of full employment/nationalisation/trade unions that people can't relate to in this world of "flexible" employment and automisation.

[parochial boy]

The question is what replaces it as the alternative to the establishment. It could be that Nationalism replaces it and the establishment becomes a liberal socially liberal libertarian-leaning alternative. Or it could be something post-national or post-liberal like more control by business or something totally technocratic.

Basically, the post ww2 era could have been defined as the pro-business traditionalists against the pro-labor non-conformists. That could change to be the nationalist establishment against the pro-business non-conformists. The 2025 and 2050 could look like 1825 or 1850.

nationalism will replace socialism in the short term, but as nationalism doesn't have any genuine responses to the world as it is, we will continue to see spiralling inequality and a new gilded age.

All of which will usher in a communist revolution. Or something.

I think new ideas such as Unconditional Basic Income, mutualism, and a case for supranational authorities on things like wages or tax and business regulations might be the way forward, and may be an easier sell once nationalist retrenchment fails.

[parochial boy]

This almost makes a case for Trump, Putin, LePen, Farrange, Dueterte et al. That is that we don't expect nationalism to fix anything but will intstead push up the reckoning needed to "start over" from a couple of decades to a few years from now. It may seem irresponsible (and it is) but would you rather deal with a major time of turbulation when you are 55 or 35?

I don't disagree, the rise of the nationalist right terrifies me, but in response to the hypothetical situation you posited, whereby the option was a right wing, liberal right against a populist-nationalist right; I would still try and have some hope of an eventual renaissance of truly egalitarian politics.

[parochial boy]

What would you rather have? Bob Casey/Gene Taylor / Marco Rubio opposition to Trump or a Mike Gravel/Gary Johnson style opposition?

To be honest, I might marginally prefer the former, but would expect the latter.

Whatdo you think will take for the pendulum to swing back do you think this was it for Humanism/Enlightenment?

No I don't think this is it, but the left needs to come up with better answers than what it has at the moment. I'm not exactly coming up with any excellent new insight by saying the left has lost its connection with its own base - because the answers it offers hark back to an era that doesn't really exist any more.

Otherwise, I don't understand your line of questioning, i don't feel particularly optimistic in the short term, because left wing parties manifestly are struggling; but I do feel more optimistic in the long run, because my own belief is the left wing has fundamentally the right diagnosis and the best policies.

[parochial boy]

What would you rather have? Bob Casey/Gene Taylor / Marco Rubio opposition to Trump or a Mike Gravel/Gary Johnson style opposition?

To be honest, I might marginally prefer the former, but would expect the latter.

Whatdo you think will take for the pendulum to swing back do you think this was it for Humanism/Enlightenment?

No I don't think this is it, but the left needs to come up with better answers than what it has at the moment. I'm not exactly coming up with any excellent new insight by saying the left has lost its connection with its own base - because the answers it offers hark back to an era that doesn't really exist any more.

Otherwise, I don't understand your line of questioning, i don't feel particularly optimistic in the short term, because left wing parties manifestly are struggling; but I do feel more optimistic in the long run, because my own belief is the left wing has fundamentally the right diagnosis and the best policies.

I think you understand what I am asking. It could be that the main left ideology just hasn't caught up with technology and that the transformation of the right will align philosophy with ideology.

Well yes the left hasn't caught up with technology, that is kind of what I was getting at..

But there is always going to be a place for redistributive, egalitarian politics; which is something that neither side of the right has any interest in.