Democratic Trump equivalent?
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Author Topic: Democratic Trump equivalent?  (Read 2622 times)
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CrabCake
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« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2016, 06:54:35 AM »

Bill Maher?
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BaldEagle1991
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« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2016, 09:47:53 AM »

The idea that a Democratic Trump could ever win the nomination or be a major factor is silly and based on the absurd premise that the two parties are mirror images of each other and function basically identically aside from ideology. You could never have a Democratic Trump because Trump's campaign is based around demonizing and attacking large groups of people. You can't do that as a Democrat and be successful because those people are going to be represented in the Democratic Party at some level no matter who they are.

Like take the most obvious example: Evangelical Christians. So what if some candidate ran a campaign bashing them like Trump does immigrants or Muslims? Well over 25% of evangelicals vote Democratic. There are tons of them in the Democratic Party and if someone wants to point out that they are largely or possibly even majority black and Hispanic...yeah how do you think that would look? It would go nowhere.  Gun owners? Duh. There's tons of gun owning Democrats. And so on.


I think a Democratic Trump could win the nomination, they just have to run on the same political platform like Bernie Sanders, but add in some controversial statement making stuff about White Evangelical Christians. I can say I know a lot of gun owning Democrats (I live in TX so this may be a factor), but I have yet to meet a White Evangelical Democrat.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2016, 10:10:00 AM »

One would need

(1) a plutocrat
(2) a demagogue
(3) with no experience in public office but seeming to know everything
(4) willing to contradict himself between campaign stops
(5) having a proclivity for advocating violence against opponents

The core constituencies of the Democratic Party, middle-class ethnic, religious, and sexual minorities, government employees, and middle-class feminists, would never fall for such. Poor blacks respect middle-class blacks and poor Hispanics respect middle-class Hispanics as poor whites do not respect middle-class whites.  The black, Hispanic, and Asian middle classes are very rational in their politics. These are learned people as a rule, and learned people eschew demagogues for the unreliability of demagogues. 

Donald Trump represents a breakdown in the Republican Establishment. It is paradoxical that Hillary Clinton is much closer to the sane foreign policy of the elder Bush than is Donald Trump.

...When the white middle class starts recognizing that it has more in common with the black middle class, then the game is up for the Tea Party Right.
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Sprouts Farmers Market ✘
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« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2016, 10:26:24 AM »
« Edited: September 29, 2016, 10:28:39 AM by Sprouts Farmers Market ✘ »

The idea that a Democratic Trump could ever win the nomination or be a major factor is silly and based on the absurd premise that the two parties are mirror images of each other and function basically identically aside from ideology. You could never have a Democratic Trump because Trump's campaign is based around demonizing and attacking large groups of people. You can't do that as a Democrat and be successful because those people are going to be represented in the Democratic Party at some level no matter who they are.

Like take the most obvious example: Evangelical Christians. So what if some candidate ran a campaign bashing them like Trump does immigrants or Muslims? Well over 25% of evangelicals vote Democratic. There are tons of them in the Democratic Party and if someone wants to point out that they are largely or possibly even majority black and Hispanic...yeah how do you think that would look? It would go nowhere.  Gun owners? Duh. There's tons of gun owning Democrats. And so on.

Why not simply "West Virginia hicks"?

And you're acting like a substantial number of Hispanics haven't voted Republican previously. Trump won Florida in a landslide against one of their own.
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RI
realisticidealist
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« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2016, 10:32:30 AM »

These are learned people as a rule, and learned people eschew demagogues for the unreliability of demagogues.

Funny, as plenty of research shows better educated people are more likely to fall for scams due to illusory superiority and the Dunning-Kruger effect.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2016, 10:43:07 AM »

The phenomenon was first experimentally observed in a series of experiments by David Dunning and Justin Kruger of the department of psychology at Cornell University in 1999.[1][2] The study was inspired by the case of McArthur Wheeler, a man who robbed two banks after covering his face with lemon juice in the mistaken belief that, because lemon juice is usable as invisible ink, it would prevent his face from being recorded on surveillance cameras.[3] The authors noted that earlier studies suggested that ignorance of standards of performance lies behind a great deal of incorrect self-assessment of competence.

This pattern of over-estimating competence was seen in studies of skills as diverse as reading comprehension, practicing medicine, operating a motor vehicle, and playing games such as chess or tennis. Dunning and Kruger proposed that, for a given skill, incompetent people will:[4]

    fail to recognize their own lack of skill
    fail to recognize the extent of their inadequacy
    fail to accurately gauge skill in others
    recognize and acknowledge their own lack of skill only after they are exposed to training for that skill

Dunning has since drawn an analogy – "the anosognosia of everyday life"[5][6] – with a condition in which a person who experiences a physical disability because of brain injury seems unaware of, or denies the existence of, the disability, even for dramatic impairments such as blindness or paralysis: "If you're incompetent, you can’t know you’re incompetent.… [T]he skills you need to produce a right answer are exactly the skills you need to recognize what a right answer is."[5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
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Kleine Scheiße
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« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2016, 11:30:03 AM »

I'd argue 1992 Jerry Brown.

As for a contemporary Democratic Trump, I'm not quite as sure.
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Nym90
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« Reply #32 on: September 29, 2016, 12:01:33 PM »
« Edited: September 29, 2016, 12:11:40 PM by Nym90 »

Politically, the closest the Democrats ever came was if Jesse Jackson had been the nominee in 1988, at least in terms of the fact that many Democrats would have endorsed Bush or refused to endorse Jackson.

Also George Wallace in 1972, who is a better analogue for Trump politically.

A more recent example would have been Al Sharpton in 2004. Of course, Sharpton, rightfully, never came anywhere close to winning the nomination.
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they don't love you like i love you
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« Reply #33 on: September 29, 2016, 12:21:05 PM »

The idea that a Democratic Trump could ever win the nomination or be a major factor is silly and based on the absurd premise that the two parties are mirror images of each other and function basically identically aside from ideology. You could never have a Democratic Trump because Trump's campaign is based around demonizing and attacking large groups of people. You can't do that as a Democrat and be successful because those people are going to be represented in the Democratic Party at some level no matter who they are.

Like take the most obvious example: Evangelical Christians. So what if some candidate ran a campaign bashing them like Trump does immigrants or Muslims? Well over 25% of evangelicals vote Democratic. There are tons of them in the Democratic Party and if someone wants to point out that they are largely or possibly even majority black and Hispanic...yeah how do you think that would look? It would go nowhere.  Gun owners? Duh. There's tons of gun owning Democrats. And so on.


I think a Democratic Trump could win the nomination, they just have to run on the same political platform like Bernie Sanders, but add in some controversial statement making stuff about White Evangelical Christians. I can say I know a lot of gun owning Democrats (I live in TX so this may be a factor), but I have yet to meet a White Evangelical Democrat.

Well here I am. So hi! Pleased to meet you.
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Person Man
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« Reply #34 on: September 29, 2016, 01:44:05 PM »

I could see a future where some new agey tech billionaire becomes a left-Trump. I think there is a future possibility for one...the time now isn't right. The party that has lost two or three in a row really tries to just get anyone elected or really tries to swing for the fences.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #35 on: September 29, 2016, 01:48:08 PM »

It would take the sorts of voters who went from Bill Clinton to George W. Bush, and in turn Donald Trump to abandon a Republican Party that it sees as elitist and unresponsive to their values to turn to a Donald Trump-like figure when the Democrats are in trouble winning national elections. Such would require an inversion of the Parties.

Inversion of the Parties? Such has happened. Just contrast elections involving Eisenhower to those involving Obama.
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VPH
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« Reply #36 on: September 29, 2016, 01:52:02 PM »

Alan Grayson?
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Famous Mortimer
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« Reply #37 on: September 29, 2016, 02:02:00 PM »

The ideological inverse of Trump would be some Ward Churchill type SJW professor who thinks 9/11 was justified and thinks there should be a tax on Whiteness.

More realistically, I don't think anyone like Trump is possible in a Democratic primary. There is just too much ideological cohesion among the Democrats. A pro-lifer might be unable to secure endorsements if he won the nomination but I doubt such a person could get nominated in the first place.
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Beefalow and the Consumer
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« Reply #38 on: September 29, 2016, 02:05:37 PM »

It's a big stretch, because the guy despises the Democrats, but how about Howard Stern?

Stern could enter the Democratic primaries as an outsider who speaks his mind, is an egotistical media wh***, claims the party has abandoned and embarrassed the people, and runs as a champion of the people.

1. Experience playing the media and promoting himself? Check.
2. Gets away with saying outrageous things? Check.
3. Crass, vulgar and un-presidential? Check.
4. Wouldn't really belong in his party? Check.
5. Has had past political aspirations? Check.
6. Has massive "guy appeal?" Check.
7. Is kind of a bully? Check.
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elcorazon
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« Reply #39 on: September 29, 2016, 02:09:25 PM »

It's a big stretch, because the guy despises the Democrats, but how about Howard Stern?

Stern could enter the Democratic primaries as an outsider who speaks his mind, is an egotistical media wh***, claims the party has abandoned and embarrassed the people, and runs as a champion of the people.

1. Experience playing the media and promoting himself? Check.
2. Gets away with saying outrageous things? Check.
3. Crass, vulgar and un-presidential? Check.
4. Wouldn't really belong in his party? Check.
5. Has had past political aspirations? Check.
6. Has massive "guy appeal?" Check.
7. Is kind of a bully? Check.
probably the best answer. And frankly, Trump's relationship with Republicans wasn't and still isn't all that great either so perhaps his anger at Democrats improves the analogy.
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Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
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« Reply #40 on: September 29, 2016, 02:45:16 PM »

Trump could have won the Democratic nomination with his trade and foreign policy positions if he hadn't done the Birther schtick.  He'd have to have run a different kind of campaign, however, and it would have had to be in a year where the Democrats felt a bit hard-pressed to win (e. g. 2004). 
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136or142
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« Reply #41 on: September 29, 2016, 02:48:16 PM »

Now? No idea

But clearly Jesse Jackson in '88, DNC simply got Kasich to run against Hillary instead.

Jesse Jackson in 1988 was actually the exact opposite of Trump.  Jackson's goal was to put together a genuine 'rainbow coalition' of all disaffected people and those people who were more successful but who also believed that 'nobody wins unless everybody wins.'

He was still a flawed candidate in a lot of ways.  But, he appealed to American's hopes while Trump appeals to their fears and hates.

Jesse Jackson also came closer to succeeding in 1988 than anybody imagined.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #42 on: September 29, 2016, 03:10:08 PM »

While a terrible analog on most dimensions, on the "this guy says the wackiest things" scale, it's hard to beat Mike Gravel 2008.
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Clarence Boddicker
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« Reply #43 on: September 29, 2016, 03:40:47 PM »

Biil Gates perhaps?
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Beefalow and the Consumer
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« Reply #44 on: September 29, 2016, 03:55:43 PM »

Trump could have won the Democratic nomination with his trade and foreign policy positions if he hadn't done the Birther schtick.  He'd have to have run a different kind of campaign, however, and it would have had to be in a year where the Democrats felt a bit hard-pressed to win (e. g. 2004). 

Also if he didn't base his campaign on building a wall, deporting illegals, and banning Muslims.  Which are all sine qua non of any Trump campaign.  Also if he quit the climate change denial and the law and order rhetoric.

Strip those out, and you have "NAFTA sucks, and I'm gonna defeat ISIS somehow while also disengaging globally, disbanding NATO, and cuddling up to a Russian leader who is a consistent human rights abuser."  I can't see him getting very far.  He'd be a one-trick candidate.
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Monolith
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« Reply #45 on: September 29, 2016, 05:29:14 PM »

Somebody who gets support from the extremist end of their party? Somebody who is an outsider, and attacks his opponents for not being pure enough? Somebody not very popular with minorities? Somebody who promises the moon to his supporters, without any real plan to achieve his goals? Someone who is very anti-trade?

You already know his name. It's Bernie Sanders.
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rafta_rafta
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« Reply #46 on: September 29, 2016, 05:48:25 PM »

Trump could have won the Democratic nomination with his trade and foreign policy positions if he hadn't done the Birther schtick.

um, no
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HisGrace
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« Reply #47 on: September 29, 2016, 06:19:43 PM »

Trump could have won the Democratic nomination with his trade and foreign policy positions if he hadn't done the Birther schtick.  He'd have to have run a different kind of campaign, however, and it would have had to be in a year where the Democrats felt a bit hard-pressed to win (e. g. 2004). 

Trump could have filled the Sanders niche if he hadn't done the birther stuff, kept his old social issue positions (abortion, gay marriage, guns, plus single payer) and toned down the appeals to racial resentment to genuine wolf whistles for the working class northern guys who voted for Sanders rather than the transparently obvious stuff he does now. People forget he had publicly supported Democrats for some time prior to Obama. No way does he win as a Democrat, though (which is the one and only reason he decided to run as a Republican)
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Suburbia
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« Reply #48 on: September 29, 2016, 06:40:27 PM »

Alan Grayson
Barbara Lee
Ernie Chambers
Charles Barron
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Famous Mortimer
WillipsBrighton
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« Reply #49 on: September 29, 2016, 06:44:51 PM »

Actually the complete opposite of Donald Trump who would be totally unelectable but who Democrats would have a hard time refuting: Some La Raza activist.
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