The Mormonism Thread 2.0

[Zioneer]

Oh, I forgot to mention this, but it appears that President Monson, who's the church president, is not going to be attending regular meetings from now on.

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I think everyone knew this was coming after Monson's visible health problems over the past few years, and though it's incredibly sad to watch his condition deteriorate before our eyes, this has happened before with previous church presidents. We have a very stable line of succession, so there's no issue there, and the rest of the First Presidency and the Quorum of Twelve Apostles can likely take over for Monson as his condition grows worse.

[Mr. Smith]

Oh, I forgot to mention this, but it appears that President Monson, who's the church president, is not going to be attending regular meetings from now on.

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I think everyone knew this was coming after Monson's visible health problems over the past few years, and though it's incredibly sad to watch his condition deteriorate before our eyes, this has happened before with previous church presidents. We have a very stable line of succession, so there's no issue there, and the rest of the First Presidency and the Quorum of Twelve Apostles can likely take over for Monson as his condition grows worse.

...And we have 90+ year old Nelson as next in line.

[Technocracy Timmy]

What's with the undergarments? Why do people outside of the Mormon faith refer to them as "magic underwear"?

[Zioneer]

Oh, I forgot to mention this, but it appears that President Monson, who's the church president, is not going to be attending regular meetings from now on.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I think everyone knew this was coming after Monson's visible health problems over the past few years, and though it's incredibly sad to watch his condition deteriorate before our eyes, this has happened before with previous church presidents. We have a very stable line of succession, so there's no issue there, and the rest of the First Presidency and the Quorum of Twelve Apostles can likely take over for Monson as his condition grows worse.

...And we have 90+ year old Nelson as next in line.

To be fair, Nelson appears to be in great physical and mental health for being 90+. I suspect that being a former heart doctor, he takes great pains to take care of himself. But I do suspect that when he finally becomes church president (if he does), the sheer weight of the responsibilities as well as increasing age will degrade his health, just like it would any other 90+ guy.

[Zioneer]

What's with the undergarments? Why do people outside of the Mormon faith refer to them as "magic underwear"?

This video explains why we wear them, and how we consider them sacred, I'd recommend watching it. Essentially, its similar to any other religious clothing, a symbol of devotion to God, but one difference is that instead of being headgear or a cross, it happens to be undergarments.

As for magic underwear, it's a deeply offensive insult to Mormons, but the reason why non-Mormons use it is because some members believe in the folk doctrine that the garments can literally miraculously protect you from harm if you wear them. Miracle= magic in some non-Mormons minds (especially ex-Mormons), and since they're undergarments, people enjoy using the insult "magic underwear".

[afleitch]

https://www.queerty.com/young-girl-came-church-cut-mic-told-leave-20170615

[Zioneer]

To take a question from another thread and answer it here:

Besides obvious things (like the Book of Mormon), what are some of the differences in beliefs between Mormons and Protestants?

I'd say the biggest difference is that Mormons don't believe in the Trinity. We believe that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit/Ghost are three distinct individuals, and that while their purpose is the same (they are "one" in that sense), we believe that they're not a three-in-one being. This unity of purpose is called the Godhead.

We of course also believe in continuing revelation through prophets, and continuing scripture. We believe that the original gospel truth was lost over the centuries since the death of the original Apostles, and that with God's blessing and assistance, Joseph Smith, the founder of our church, restored that original gospel truth. We believe that his successors lead the church in much the same way as Joseph Smith did, and we have a Prophet and Quorum of Twelve Apostles as our church leadership today. Our current prophet/church president is Thomas S. Monson.

Contrary to the likes of South Park, we do not "believe we'll get a planet when we die". We do believe that when Jesus promised the apostles that he had everything the Father hath, and that they would have everything he had, he was serious. We believe that we can become similar to Christ through his grace, and our mortal existence is intended to help us become as Christ was/is, and therefore, as the Father is. We do not believe we'll worship anyone but the Father.

There's probably a lot of other things I'm not remembering, but I was born into the LDS Church, and raised mostly in Utah, so I haven't had much experience with non-Mormon churches. Please ask as many questions as you want, and I'll try to answer them as best I can.

[Alabama_Indy10]

Thank you very much.. I have 2 questions

1. What are the differences between the regular Bible and the Book of Mormon? Is the regular Bible used in Mormonism?
2. What are some good websites to learn more about Mormonism?

[RFayette]

What is your position concerning the accuracy of the New Testament?  Do you believe that its even if it has errors, that reading it would lead one to true doctrine, even if incomplete because there is no Book of Mormon?  Also, do you accept the general Evangelical consensus that all the books in the canon were written prior to 100 AD? 

[Zioneer]

Thank you very much.. I have 2 questions

1. What are the differences between the regular Bible and the Book of Mormon? Is the regular Bible used in Mormonism?
2. What are some good websites to learn more about Mormonism?

1. Well, we consider the Book of Mormon to be another testament of Jesus Christ, and we see it as a companion piece to the Bible; it and our other scriptures form our scriptural canon, and we see them as all supporting each other (including the Bible) in many ways. We do use the regular Bible in Mormonism, though we use a King James Version with certain edits by Joseph Smith we consider to be inspired by God (like the old "God hardened Pharaoh's heart" changed to "Pharaoh hardened his heart").

So we don't really see it in terms of differences, though we believe that the Bible was translated and compiled incorrectly in some ways, so we believe that combined, all of our scriptures provide a clearer view of God's word.

2. Well, there's LDS.org, the Church's own website. That's the main one I would recommend. Specifically, I would point to the Articles of Faith, a canonized scripture derived from a letter Joseph Smith sent to someone who had asked for a basic summary of Mormon beliefs.

Apart from that, I'm not really sure, there's a lot more anti-Mormon websites than pro-Mormon or even just websites explaining.

[Zioneer]

What is your position concerning the accuracy of the New Testament?  Do you believe that its even if it has errors, that reading it would lead one to true doctrine, even if incomplete because there is no Book of Mormon?  Also, do you accept the general Evangelical consensus that all the books in the canon were written prior to 100 AD?  

The bolded is exactly how we view it; we believe the Bible to be the Word of God, as long as it is translated correctly. The Joseph Smith Translation is Joseph Smith's attempt to use divine inspiration to try and fix what was lost in the centuries the Bible has been around. The Book of Mormon is another testament of Jesus Christ in order to support the Bible.

As for the last part; most Mormons don't really think about when the books were written, but I'd say many think that they were written within the first century AD. That view is changing though, especially among teachers of our optional adult scripture study classes (we call those classes "Institute" and the high school version of such "Seminary"). So going forward, I'd say future Mormons will believe the last New Testament books were written later.

One book of the Bible we do not consider divinely inspired at all is Song of Solomon, but we keep it in mostly because we don't want to actively remove anything from the King James Version.

[RFayette]

What do Mormons consider to be expressions of the unpardonable sin (blasphemy of the Holy Spirit), a doctrine shared by Mormonism and traditional orthodox Christianity?  

Also, how do Mormons reconcile the clear monotheistic passages like Isaiah 44:6-8 with a belief that humans can become gods - is this seen as a difference in translation or interpretation vis a vis trinitarian Christianity?

[Mr. Smith]

What do Mormons consider to be expressions of the unpardonable sin (blasphemy of the Holy Spirit), a doctrine shared by Mormonism and traditional orthodox Christianity?  

Also, how do Mormons reconcile the clear monotheistic passages like Isaiah 44:6-8 with a belief that humans can become gods - is this seen as a difference in translation or interpretation vis a vis trinitarian Christianity?

1. OMG (where the "G" ain't gosh), G*(ammit, For G*&'s sake  [I assume you're talking about taking the Lord's name in Vain?]

2. Context is key, firstly it's most likely the case that that was said in the context of idol worship and even without that, there were things not revealed then to be revealed in the New Testament, and far as we're concerned, it's still going.

[Zioneer]

What do Mormons consider to be expressions of the unpardonable sin (blasphemy of the Holy Spirit), a doctrine shared by Mormonism and traditional orthodox Christianity?  

Also, how do Mormons reconcile the clear monotheistic passages like Isaiah 44:6-8 with a belief that humans can become gods - is this seen as a difference in translation or interpretation vis a vis trinitarian Christianity?

1. What Let Dogs Survive/MormonDem said, though if you're talking about unpardonable sins in general, the only really unpardonable sin is denying the Holy Spirit when you've basically seen/heard God, or know for a fact that Jesus Christ is the Savior. Some Mormons speculate that means that the only unpardonable sinners outside of Satan and his fallen angels are Cain and Judas.

2. Again, what MormonDem said, though I can explain in further detail later. Additionally, consider Psalms 82:6

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and John 10:34

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[BuckeyeNut]

So what is Kolob?

[Coraxion]

So what is Kolob?

I'm not Mormon myself, but I do live in Utah, so I have more credibility than most non-Mormons.

It's part of the Book of Abraham, a text that Mormons believe Joseph Smith, founder of the LDS faith, translated from the Joseph Smith Papyri, an Ancient Egyptian text that a member of the church acquired from an archaeologist and gave to Smith. Mormons believe that Kolob is the celestial body - it's disputed whether it's a star or planet - closest to the Throne of God, the reigning center of God. The Throne of God can also be found in other Christian sects, Islam, and Judaism.

Really, it isn't a very fleshed out part of the religion.

[Mr. Smith]

So what is Kolob?

I'm not Mormon myself, but I do live in Utah, so I have more credibility than most non-Mormons.

It's part of the Book of Abraham, a text that Mormons believe Joseph Smith, founder of the LDS faith, translated from the Joseph Smith Papyri, an Ancient Egyptian text that a member of the church acquired from an archaeologist and gave to Smith. Mormons believe that Kolob is the celestial body - it's disputed whether it's a star or planet - closest to the Throne of God, the reigning center of God. The Throne of God can also be found in other Christian sects, Islam, and Judaism.

Really, it isn't a very fleshed out part of the religion.

Yeah, that's a topic that even your average, goody-goody, every week, all-3 hours, doesn't know  a curse word Peter Priesthood/Molly Mormon could go their whole life not knowing jack about.

[Zioneer]

So what is Kolob?

What Cora and MormonDem said, and also the subject of one of Mormonism's more esoteric hymns, If You Could Hie to Kolob.

And before you ask, yes, Kobol in Battlestar Galatica was in fact based on Kolob, as the main writer for the original series was Mormon. There were lots of Mormon references in the original show, actually.

[Zioneer]

So for the first time in nearly 30 years, an LDS Seventy was excommunicated.

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[they don't love you like i love you]

What do you think of the September Six? Do you think that there's any chance that Mormonism will recognize its radical origins, or do you see it moving closer and closer to mainstream Protestantism?

Good question. I don't think it was answered, so I'll re-ask it.

Two is more political and relates to the first question: why doesn't Utah have a single dry county?

I can answer this. Utah has very strict laws on alcohol, including being a control state (meaning the state has a monopoly on the wholesaling of alcohol) and that preempts all local laws, basically only the state laws can be valid, no city or county can pass different laws on alcohol. But while this standardizes Utah's strict laws throughout the whole state, it also effectively prohibits any municipality from establishing stricter laws. Thus dry counties are not allowed in Utah. Oklahoma also has no dry counties for basically the same reason.

[Zioneer]

What do you think of the September Six? Do you think that there's any chance that Mormonism will recognize its radical origins, or do you see it moving closer and closer to mainstream Protestantism?

Personally, I don't think any of the September Six should have been excommunicated, and that it was a bad move on the Church's part.

As for the radical origins or getting closer to Protestantism question, I'm not sure. We're kind of in a rut right now, unwilling to go back to our fairly radical origins but treasuring some of the teachings that came from that, but also unwilling to go fully into mainstream Protestantism.

[Mopsus]

What do you think of the September Six? Do you think that there's any chance that Mormonism will recognize its radical origins, or do you see it moving closer and closer to mainstream Protestantism?

Personally, I don't think any of the September Six should have been excommunicated, and that it was a bad move on the Church's part.

As for the radical origins or getting closer to Protestantism question, I'm not sure. We're kind of in a rut right now, unwilling to go back to our fairly radical origins but treasuring some of the teachings that came from that, but also unwilling to go fully into mainstream Protestantism.

Is this rut a product of the Church hierarchy, lay members, or both?

On a related note, are there any wide variations in how Mormons see themselves? For example, are American Mormons more likely to see their faith as another branch of Protestantism (owing to their relative acceptance by the predominantly Protestant society in which they live), while non-American Mormons are more likely to see it as something unparalleled in post-Apostasy Christianity?

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

What do you make of this?

[Coraxion]

What do you make of this?

As a non-Mormon in Utah, that reads like "love the sinner, hate the sin" to me. Many, if not most, Mormons in Utah are accepting of homosexuality, but I don't think the Church itself as an organization is there yet.

[Zioneer]

What do you make of this?

As a non-Mormon in Utah, that reads like "love the sinner, hate the sin" to me. Many, if not most, Mormons in Utah are accepting of homosexuality, but I don't think the Church itself as an organization is there yet.

Honestly with this and the Church's condemnation of white supremacy (very much improved from their lukewarm initial statement), I think this week is better to be a liberal Mormon than it has been in a long time. Even though, as you said, it's kind of "love the sinner, hate the sin".