Seriously, my fellow lefties...

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

What makes the refusal to vote for Hillary Clinton even worse, is that the people who refuse to vote for her can't comprehend the idea that, yes, this country and, more broadly, the world could easily become a toxic heap of radioactive sludge that would be deadly to all, regardless of one's skin color or one's religious preference or one's sexual orientation. Ultimately, our continued existence as a species is what is at stake in this election: we have a candidate who is mentally unstable and one who is not. We have one who believes that climate change is a hoax and one who acknowledges that is real. We have a candidate who believes that the Geneva Convention's binding rules of war ought to be shredded and we have a candidate who pledges to respect the Geneva Convention. I could go on and on and on like this but you get my point: we are standing on a precipice right now. There's a clear choice between someone who embodies evil in every possible way and someone who is totally palatable. Make the right choice and feel proud about this. Own your decision to vote for Hillary Clinton and feel proud about it: you are doing your part to save the world and you will be pumping the breaks on the doomsday train.

I don't think I'm exaggerating about this: over the past few years, the world has become increasingly dangerous, increasingly intolerant, increasingly militaristic and increasingly Evil. No more. I'm not willing to put up with this anymore and my vote for Clinton has symbolic value as a vote against the monsters who thrive on bigotry and hatred and Know-Nothingism and militarism and racism and ignorance. Make it stop: vote for Clinton.

A vote for Clinton has symbolic value against militarism?  Good grief.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

What makes the refusal to vote for Hillary Clinton even worse, is that the people who refuse to vote for her can't comprehend the idea that, yes, this country and, more broadly, the world could easily become a toxic heap of radioactive sludge that would be deadly to all, regardless of one's skin color or one's religious preference or one's sexual orientation. Ultimately, our continued existence as a species is what is at stake in this election: we have a candidate who is mentally unstable and one who is not. We have one who believes that climate change is a hoax and one who acknowledges that is real. We have a candidate who believes that the Geneva Convention's binding rules of war ought to be shredded and we have a candidate who pledges to respect the Geneva Convention. I could go on and on and on like this but you get my point: we are standing on a precipice right now. There's a clear choice between someone who embodies evil in every possible way and someone who is totally palatable. Make the right choice and feel proud about this. Own your decision to vote for Hillary Clinton and feel proud about it: you are doing your part to save the world and you will be pumping the breaks on the doomsday train.

I don't think I'm exaggerating about this: over the past few years, the world has become increasingly dangerous, increasingly intolerant, increasingly militaristic and increasingly Evil. No more. I'm not willing to put up with this anymore and my vote for Clinton has symbolic value as a vote against the monsters who thrive on bigotry and hatred and Know-Nothingism and militarism and racism and ignorance. Make it stop: vote for Clinton.

A vote for Clinton has symbolic value against militarism?  Good grief.

Of course it does; being a hawk is not the same as being a militarist. The idea that there's a comparison between LBJ and, say, Hideki Tojo is insane. There is no comparison. Hawks don't glorify war. Militarists believe that war is morally good, worth pursuing. Make no mistake, Trump is a militarist and his fanboys would love to annihilate civilians. They must be stopped.

edit: more generally, Trump has consistently undermined the idea that human life has value throughout his campaign by bullying, harassing and trashing entire groups of people and engaging in vicious character assassinations of "little people" like Alicia Machado for no apparent reason and his supporters love it. These sentiments lay the foundations for militarism.

One of the reasons Clinton is seeking out and getting hawkish support is because Trump is supposed to not believe America has a "role in the world."  I doubt many complained that of Tojo.  Trump represents an amoral foreign policy, which might be called "realist" if it were more grounded in reality. Clinton is the one who has more explicitly championed bellicosity as serving a grand moral purpose.  She'll leave her trail of dead, combatant and civilian, in the far corners of the world. Granted she may feel bad about it being necessary.

As to the idea that voting for Clinton symbolizes respect for the value of human life, I find that laughable for any number of reasons, some of which should be obvious.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

What makes the refusal to vote for Hillary Clinton even worse, is that the people who refuse to vote for her can't comprehend the idea that, yes, this country and, more broadly, the world could easily become a toxic heap of radioactive sludge that would be deadly to all, regardless of one's skin color or one's religious preference or one's sexual orientation. Ultimately, our continued existence as a species is what is at stake in this election: we have a candidate who is mentally unstable and one who is not. We have one who believes that climate change is a hoax and one who acknowledges that is real. We have a candidate who believes that the Geneva Convention's binding rules of war ought to be shredded and we have a candidate who pledges to respect the Geneva Convention. I could go on and on and on like this but you get my point: we are standing on a precipice right now. There's a clear choice between someone who embodies evil in every possible way and someone who is totally palatable. Make the right choice and feel proud about this. Own your decision to vote for Hillary Clinton and feel proud about it: you are doing your part to save the world and you will be pumping the breaks on the doomsday train.

I don't think I'm exaggerating about this: over the past few years, the world has become increasingly dangerous, increasingly intolerant, increasingly militaristic and increasingly Evil. No more. I'm not willing to put up with this anymore and my vote for Clinton has symbolic value as a vote against the monsters who thrive on bigotry and hatred and Know-Nothingism and militarism and racism and ignorance. Make it stop: vote for Clinton.

A vote for Clinton has symbolic value against militarism?  Good grief.

Of course it does; being a hawk is not the same as being a militarist. The idea that there's a comparison between LBJ and, say, Hideki Tojo is insane. There is no comparison. Hawks don't glorify war. Militarists believe that war is morally good, worth pursuing. Make no mistake, Trump is a militarist and his fanboys would love to annihilate civilians. They must be stopped.

edit: more generally, Trump has consistently undermined the idea that human life has value throughout his campaign by bullying, harassing and trashing entire groups of people and engaging in vicious character assassinations of "little people" like Alicia Machado for no apparent reason and his supporters love it. These sentiments lay the foundations for militarism.

One of the reasons Clinton is seeking out and getting hawkish support is because Trump is supposed to not believe America has a "role in the world."  I doubt many complained that of Tojo.  Trump represents an amoral foreign policy, which might be called "realist" if it were more grounded in reality. Clinton is the one who has more explicitly championed bellicosity as serving a grand moral purpose.  She'll leave her trail of dead, combatant and civilian, in the far corners of the world. Granted she may feel bad about it being necessary.

Who cares about what the Clinton campaign has to say about this election? We have explicit statements from the Trump campaign where he clearly has no desire to "retreat from our role in the world" because his plans to make Mexico "pay for the wall" involve saber-rattling and the use of hard power; he plans on unilaterally making life difficult for Mexicans to extract a demand. How is this not a marker of militarism?

I'm not following your definition of militarism, as this sort of willingness to enact economic retaliation for what is believed to be in the nation's self-interest seems to me a different sort of thing than what you were describing before and not within the normal definition of the term.

If you are hoping that your vote is going to symbolize something, the campaign of the candidate you are voting for is entirely relevant to whether it is reasonable for it to be interpreted as such.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

What makes the refusal to vote for Hillary Clinton even worse, is that the people who refuse to vote for her can't comprehend the idea that, yes, this country and, more broadly, the world could easily become a toxic heap of radioactive sludge that would be deadly to all, regardless of one's skin color or one's religious preference or one's sexual orientation. Ultimately, our continued existence as a species is what is at stake in this election: we have a candidate who is mentally unstable and one who is not. We have one who believes that climate change is a hoax and one who acknowledges that is real. We have a candidate who believes that the Geneva Convention's binding rules of war ought to be shredded and we have a candidate who pledges to respect the Geneva Convention. I could go on and on and on like this but you get my point: we are standing on a precipice right now. There's a clear choice between someone who embodies evil in every possible way and someone who is totally palatable. Make the right choice and feel proud about this. Own your decision to vote for Hillary Clinton and feel proud about it: you are doing your part to save the world and you will be pumping the breaks on the doomsday train.

I don't think I'm exaggerating about this: over the past few years, the world has become increasingly dangerous, increasingly intolerant, increasingly militaristic and increasingly Evil. No more. I'm not willing to put up with this anymore and my vote for Clinton has symbolic value as a vote against the monsters who thrive on bigotry and hatred and Know-Nothingism and militarism and racism and ignorance. Make it stop: vote for Clinton.

A vote for Clinton has symbolic value against militarism?  Good grief.

Of course it does; being a hawk is not the same as being a militarist. The idea that there's a comparison between LBJ and, say, Hideki Tojo is insane. There is no comparison. Hawks don't glorify war. Militarists believe that war is morally good, worth pursuing. Make no mistake, Trump is a militarist and his fanboys would love to annihilate civilians. They must be stopped.

edit: more generally, Trump has consistently undermined the idea that human life has value throughout his campaign by bullying, harassing and trashing entire groups of people and engaging in vicious character assassinations of "little people" like Alicia Machado for no apparent reason and his supporters love it. These sentiments lay the foundations for militarism.

One of the reasons Clinton is seeking out and getting hawkish support is because Trump is supposed to not believe America has a "role in the world."  I doubt many complained that of Tojo.  Trump represents an amoral foreign policy, which might be called "realist" if it were more grounded in reality. Clinton is the one who has more explicitly championed bellicosity as serving a grand moral purpose.  She'll leave her trail of dead, combatant and civilian, in the far corners of the world. Granted she may feel bad about it being necessary.

"Take the oil."

"I would bomb the sh**t out of them."

"I would bomb the hell out of those oil fields."

Look, the fact that Clinton actively sought to be potentially the last presidential candidate endorsed by Henry Kissinger before he spends an eternity in hell is a significant reason why I can't stomach voting for her, but the difference here clearly is not just a matter of Clinton knowing how to dance. The best-case scenario under a Trump administration is a foreign policy no less sociopathic than that offered by Bush, McCain, and Romney, but with even less respect for human rights and international norms.

I fear the way that Trump would engage in war more than I do Clinton. But as I expect there are wars Trump would lead us into that Clinton wouldn't, also vice-versa. Trump seems less likely to get us involved in any sort of proxy war with Russia for example.   

Maybe the fact that Trump doesn't even pay lip service to the human rights and international norms that are routinely ignored should scare us more than anything. But the idea that every extra vote for Clinton symbolizes any kind of victory for them isn't something I can take seriously.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

What makes the refusal to vote for Hillary Clinton even worse, is that the people who refuse to vote for her can't comprehend the idea that, yes, this country and, more broadly, the world could easily become a toxic heap of radioactive sludge that would be deadly to all, regardless of one's skin color or one's religious preference or one's sexual orientation. Ultimately, our continued existence as a species is what is at stake in this election: we have a candidate who is mentally unstable and one who is not. We have one who believes that climate change is a hoax and one who acknowledges that is real. We have a candidate who believes that the Geneva Convention's binding rules of war ought to be shredded and we have a candidate who pledges to respect the Geneva Convention. I could go on and on and on like this but you get my point: we are standing on a precipice right now. There's a clear choice between someone who embodies evil in every possible way and someone who is totally palatable. Make the right choice and feel proud about this. Own your decision to vote for Hillary Clinton and feel proud about it: you are doing your part to save the world and you will be pumping the breaks on the doomsday train.

I don't think I'm exaggerating about this: over the past few years, the world has become increasingly dangerous, increasingly intolerant, increasingly militaristic and increasingly Evil. No more. I'm not willing to put up with this anymore and my vote for Clinton has symbolic value as a vote against the monsters who thrive on bigotry and hatred and Know-Nothingism and militarism and racism and ignorance. Make it stop: vote for Clinton.

A vote for Clinton has symbolic value against militarism?  Good grief.

Of course it does; being a hawk is not the same as being a militarist. The idea that there's a comparison between LBJ and, say, Hideki Tojo is insane. There is no comparison. Hawks don't glorify war. Militarists believe that war is morally good, worth pursuing. Make no mistake, Trump is a militarist and his fanboys would love to annihilate civilians. They must be stopped.

edit: more generally, Trump has consistently undermined the idea that human life has value throughout his campaign by bullying, harassing and trashing entire groups of people and engaging in vicious character assassinations of "little people" like Alicia Machado for no apparent reason and his supporters love it. These sentiments lay the foundations for militarism.

One of the reasons Clinton is seeking out and getting hawkish support is because Trump is supposed to not believe America has a "role in the world."  I doubt many complained that of Tojo.  Trump represents an amoral foreign policy, which might be called "realist" if it were more grounded in reality. Clinton is the one who has more explicitly championed bellicosity as serving a grand moral purpose.  She'll leave her trail of dead, combatant and civilian, in the far corners of the world. Granted she may feel bad about it being necessary.

Who cares about what the Clinton campaign has to say about this election? We have explicit statements from the Trump campaign where he clearly has no desire to "retreat from our role in the world" because his plans to make Mexico "pay for the wall" involve saber-rattling and the use of hard power; he plans on unilaterally making life difficult for Mexicans to extract a demand. How is this not a marker of militarism?

I'm not following your definition of militarism, as this sort of willingness to enact economic retaliation for what is believed to be in the nation's self-interest seems to me a different sort of thing than what you were describing before and not within the normal definition of the term.

If you are hoping that your vote is going to symbolize something, the campaign of the candidate you are voting for is entirely relevant to whether it is reasonable for it to be interpreted as such.

It's rather obvious how "the willingness to enact economic retaliation" is related to the militarism that I've described: it flagrantly flaunts diplomatic norms in favor of exercising blunt unilateral mechanisms that effectively operate as tools to bludgeon opponents. It is the type of behavior that, most assuredly is part of the militarist's state of mind. Besides, there's plenty of evidence that Trump is a militarist. He's said so himself.

"I love war." - Donald Trump

"I know more about fighting ISIS than the generals." - Donald Trump

there's also every quote averroes shared..

He went to a "military school" and his father's terms for the "genetically best" people was "killers". If you can't see any of this, you are blind to reality. Your willingness to shield yourself from the damning reality of the Trump campaign so that you can sit back and argue that both candidates are equally bad is tantamount to cowardice.

Cowardice would be willingness to run for safety in the arms of Clinton and embrace her brand of deadliness because it is a little more familiar. 

Military school?  His father's slang words?  You really are just pulling out any sh**t you can reach nearby aren't you?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I just imagine how dumb any of this reasoning would look in the future. I'm sure there were people who voted for Hitler because Hindenburg had health issues or the Social Democrats had the wrong tax policy or their faith prevented them from voting for a Catholic party or whatever.

But in retrospect that was dumb and so is any reason you come up with for not voting Clinton.

In hindsight a vote for Hindenburg means making Hitler Chancellor.  I guess Clinton would be ☭Thalmann in this analogy?