Poland General Discussion

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Surprised no one posted anything about this so far.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37540139

[Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan]

Poor PiS, I wonder how it will end. It is obvious that leadership of party do not wanted that project of legal act to be coped with now (or at any time probably) but I am not sure if as PiS probably will not impose voting discipline in the voting on the project and potential PiS alternative project there will be similar situation as in 2007 with Marek Jurek & co.


And that is maybe my observation but actually Church is not that active in that issue as most of the abortionists want, last Sunday on mass in my parish sermon was dedicated to the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_Paul_II_Day and it was based on KEP list. Some bishops sometimes say something but there is no massive action in support for that.

[Hash]

yes that's nice and all #solidarity but let me read the 67th article about the tragic horrors which Kim Kardashian went through today!

i will make sure to tweet about this though.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Poor PiS, I wonder how it will end. It is obvious that leadership of party do not wanted that project of legal act to be coped with now (or at any time probably) but I am not sure if as PiS probably will not impose voting discipline in the voting on the project and potential PiS alternative project there will be similar situation as in 2007 with Marek Jurek & co.

"OK, let's make a gesture toward part of our base by allowing this to proceed to second reading. I mean, it's not like people will care..."

[Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan]

Poor PiS, I wonder how it will end. It is obvious that leadership of party do not wanted that project of legal act to be coped with now (or at any time probably) but I am not sure if as PiS probably will not impose voting discipline in the voting on the project and potential PiS alternative project there will be similar situation as in 2007 with Marek Jurek & co.

"OK, let's make a gesture toward part of our base by allowing this to proceed to second reading. I mean, it's not like people will care..."

Well, they really had no choice. But worth noticing is that JarKacz wanted second project issued by "Ratujmy Kobiety" initiative to be proceeded but most of the irrelevant MPs rejected it. Now PiS have 3 MPs over necessary amount to have majority, any major break-up will lead to next elections so they must somehow cope with that project but they can't "kill it" brutally, because part of their electorate will probably not be happy and maybe drift to some other parties (to be honest I don't get it that some people really still thinks that PiS is some bulwark of Christian values etc.)

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Are any other parliamentary parties supporting the ban?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Are any other parliamentary parties supporting the ban?

I don't think any issued the "official" support, including PiS. PiS main talking point is "well, it's a citizens' initiative, so we let it proceed," (though, as mentioned by kaatak, the opposing "Ratujmy Kobiety" project did not proceed.)

I could imagine some PSL types voting in favor (if it's ever actually brought to vote), but for other opposition parties it's either "save muh abortion compromise" or liberalization. The so-called "compromise" was established in 1990s and provided abortion being allowed in "special circumstances" (like rape, incest, danger to health, etc.) Schetyna (current PO leader) proposed adding this to the constitution ("muh moderate") and received severe backlash.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Well, they really had no choice. But worth noticing is that JarKacz wanted second project issued by "Ratujmy Kobiety" initiative to be proceeded but most of the irrelevant MPs rejected it. Now PiS have 3 MPs over necessary amount to have majority, any major break-up will lead to next elections so they must somehow cope with that project but they can't "kill it" brutally, because part of their electorate will probably not be happy and maybe drift to some other parties (to be honest I don't get it that some people really still thinks that PiS is some bulwark of Christian values etc.)

To be fair to this part of the electorate there's hardly any alternative, with LPR being eaten back in 2007 and a difficulty for any new party to break into the parliament (My facebook friend from Razem, yes, you're not "winning" the next election, lol.)

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Doesn't Kukiz oppose abortion as well?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Doesn't Kukiz oppose abortion as well?

The main difference is being between opposing "abortion on demand" and "all abortions, no exceptions." I'd need to check Kukiz, but I think he'd rather be on the former side.

[Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan]

As far as I know PSL or at least officially as its leader said they are supporting status quo so the current law. PO is also supporting current so called "compromise", although there might be maybe one or two MPs which would support that act but probably after all those protests they will not do that. In more conservative PSL similar situation, although they might support potential PiS alternative project which still do not exist and is only still a declaration.



Kukiz'15 do not impose any official statement about abortion although most of its MPs was not supporting "yes" option in voting about rejecting the project "Stop Aborcji". Although some of its MPs including one from my electoral district consider all that abortion buzz as smokescreen to the CETA issue, and would probably be happy if there will be no that situation at all. Probably the most supporting the ban is nationalist faction inside the Kukiz15 parliamentary club.

[Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan]

Oh yeah, and as for the minor forces in parliament there are also two groups which are not clubs but minor groups which are called "koła" and I don't know how to call them.

One, Europejscy Demokraci (4 MPs, one of its members I have on signature but probably only Kalwejt will find it funny) was against the project (so voted yes in voting about rejecting the project) and second group is Wolni i Solidarni (3 MPs, group created around Kornel Morawiecki which members are outcasts from Kukiz15) voted in support of the project, so against rejection.

(My facebook friend from Razem, yes, you're not "winning" the next election, lol.)

HOW DARE YOU [TRIGGERED]

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Oh yeah, and as for the minor forces in parliament there are also two groups which are not clubs but minor groups which are called "koła" and I don't know how to call them.

One, Europejscy Demokraci (4 MPs, one of its members I have on signature but probably only Kalwejt will find it funny)

Is this Kamiński?

[Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan]

YES

[Antonio the Sixth]

I thought the government had withdrawn it?

Anyway, massive FFs.

[Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan]

I thought the government had withdrawn it?

Anyway, massive FFs.

They moved it to the works in the parliamentary commission what in practice means that they will vote on that project, or its slightly changed form in some point in future.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I thought the government had withdrawn it?

Anyway, massive FFs.

They moved it to the works in the parliamentary commission what in practice means that they will vote on that project, or its slightly changed form in some point in future.

There's always a "legislative freezer" (something PiS was frequently accusing PO of doing).

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Btw, how did it go in Łódź, kaatak?

[Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan]

There were march in last weekend which I must say was extraordinarily big (media usually report that there were few thousands participants) as for the Łódź (well, it is enough to say that people there are not really keen in expressing their political views in form of manifestation or marches), it was co-organised by KOD so that also probably helped. As I noticed on photos most of the taking part were mainly women in age in range 35-60, which is somehow logical knowing the age structure and feminisation ratio. As for the yesterday I don't know if there was anything organised, probably main event was scheduled for last Sunday. Razem also took part.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

There were march in last weekend which I must say was extraordinarily big (media usually report that there were few thousands participants) as for the Łódź (well, it is enough to say that people there are not really keen in expressing their political views in form of manifestation or marches), it was co-organised by KOD so that also probably helped. As I noticed on photos most of the taking part were mainly women in age in range 35-60, which is somehow logical knowing the age structure and feminisation ratio. As for the yesterday I don't know if there was anything organised, probably main event was scheduled for last Sunday. Razem also took part.

Well, given that we kind of sucked in doing large manifestations after '89, I was surprised too.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I know I'll probably be disappointed by the answer, but... any chance that SLD (or a competing left-wing party) will benefit from the protest's success and use it to (re)establish itself as a credible political force?

[Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan]

I know I'll probably be disappointed by the answer, but... any chance that SLD (or a competing left-wing party) will benefit from the protest's success and use it to (re)establish itself as a credible political force?

No. They are not even visibly active during the protests. Some minor leaders participated in organized events but this was way too little to make people actually think that SLD is political power which is worth the vote. The only potential beneficent is .Nowoczesna (ALDE) although there were not initiators of the protests.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I know I'll probably be disappointed by the answer, but... any chance that SLD (or a competing left-wing party) will benefit from the protest's success and use it to (re)establish itself as a credible political force?

No. They are not even visibly active during the protests. Some minor leaders participated in organized events but this was way too little to make people actually think that SLD is political power which is worth the vote. The only potential beneficent is .Nowoczesna (ALDE) although there were not initiators of the protests.

Nowacka's been very active and visible during the whole thing. Then again, she's not SLD.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Just when you think "it happens only in America".

Archbishop of Warszawa-Praga Henryk Hoser said there's no need for allowing abortion for rape, because it's very rare for a woman to get pregnant from rape, cuz some stuff.

Best part? Hoser is actually a MD. Of course after Jill Stein it doesn't matter much.

[Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan]

Well probably now we will have massive anti-abortion protests because on the PiS motion Sejm Justice and Human Rights commission rejected the whole project. Facebook is currently being flooded by angry posts. Brace yourselves.