Who won the VP debate?

[Averroës Nix]

Maybe this is a Northeastern thing, but I have no idea why anyone would be bothered by someone interrupting a stupid person as he tells lie after lie. If I were in the same room as someone like Mike Pence, I'd talk over him too.

[Torie]

Maybe this is a Northeastern thing, but I have no idea why anyone would be bothered by someone interrupting a stupid person as he tells lie after lie. If I were in the same room as someone like Mike Pence, I'd talk over him too.

That is not an ineffective way to persuade people. Kaine came off as immature and flighty to me, which was surprising.

[HisGrace]

Maybe this is a Northeastern thing, but I have no idea why anyone would be bothered by someone interrupting a stupid person as he tells lie after lie. If I were in the same room as someone like Mike Pence, I'd talk over him too.

Like I said earlier, I don't have problems with some crosstalk, but Kaine could be a bit disruptive last night. If he wants to cut off Pence after he's made a point to refute it, fine, but there were times where it seemed like he wouldn't let Pence finish a sentence or a thought, and would often interject with things that were off topic like Trump's taxes. Again, not nearly as bad as Trump was with Clinton, but that's not a 100% get out of jail free card, especially since he was debating someone who wasn't Trump and who has been mostly civil throughout the campaign.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

Maybe this is a Northeastern thing, but I have no idea why anyone would be bothered by someone interrupting a stupid person as he tells lie after lie. If I were in the same room as someone like Mike Pence, I'd talk over him too.

It's not just Northeastern. Pence deserved to be called out for his lies.

[PresidentSamTilden]

Pence looked a little better and had a better tone, so I give it to him. In terms of content though, so much of what he said was wrong - especially about trump's statements.

Another thing was his idea that "Obama's regulations" were the reason the economy is doing poorly, and that him and Donald would restore the US to 4% GDP growth per year. First of all, environmental regulations aren't damaging the economy much, and they are very important. Second of all, it is very unlikely that the US is going to reach those growth numbers again, regardless of who the president is.

[GoTfan]

Of the candidates on stage, I think Pence won. Being a former radio host, he knew how to perfectly time himself.

However, I think Clinton really won. Kaine did a great job of defending her, and if we're using the "do no harm" rule as a benchmark, the Kaine won. He did a great job of defending Clinton. Pence on the other hand, was caught out disagreeing with Trump. An example being the Iraq War. Trump himself was fairly lukewarm on going in, while Pence also voted in favour of it. During this campaign, Trump has hit Hillary repeatedly on the Iraq War, and Pence basically said "we shouldn't have left". Expect that to be in Hillary's next few ads.

All in all, Pence won on style, Kaine won on substance. But the real winner was Clinton; Kaine did a tremendous job of defending her.

[rafta_rafta]

And Kaine came in with a mandate in the debate. It was simply an introduction and get as many attacks as possible on Trump. He could have spaced them better he got most of them in.

The idea was to get Pence to take the bait and say something stupid and try to defend Trump. To his credit Pence didn't take the bait and get distracted. However it did somewhat create a contrast between them where the VP doesn't seem to believe in the top of the ticket.

But from the party perspective, it might have convinced some Trump skeptic republicans to come back  to the tent

[Averroës Nix]

Maybe this is a Northeastern thing, but I have no idea why anyone would be bothered by someone interrupting a stupid person as he tells lie after lie. If I were in the same room as someone like Mike Pence, I'd talk over him too.

That is not an ineffective way to persuade people. Kaine came off as immature and flighty to me, which was surprising.

Why any thinking person would even consider grading the candidates on style first, even exclusively, is what I would like to know. There's something very strange about this postmodern approach in which everyone instantly tries to evaluate these events as if all of us were peering behind the curtain and some other inchoate group is the true audience.

Maybe I sound as if I am trying to be hyperbolic, but I'm not. Only a very stupid or very ignorant person could have interpreted Pence's performance as anything other than an extremely and obviously dishonest act. How is that not the headline coming out of this?

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Maybe this is a Northeastern thing, but I have no idea why anyone would be bothered by someone interrupting a stupid person as he tells lie after lie. If I were in the same room as someone like Mike Pence, I'd talk over him too.

That is not an ineffective way to persuade people. Kaine came off as immature and flighty to me, which was surprising.

Why any thinking person would even consider grading the candidates on style first, even exclusively, is what I would like to know. There's something very strange about this postmodern approach in which everyone instantly tries to evaluate these events as if all of us were peering behind the curtain and some other inchoate group is the true audience.

Maybe I sound as if I am trying to be hyperbolic, but I'm not. Only a very stupid or very ignorant person could have interpreted Pence's performance as anything other than an extremely and obviously dishonest act. How is that not the headline coming out of this?

Because most people are stupid and ignorant. You answered it yourself.

[Suburbia]

Kaine, but barely. It was much combative than expected. I thought that it would have been a typical VP debate snoozefest, but Kaine traded a lot of barbs and it made the debate a little bit more exciting. Pence was calm, and a good communicator (he was a talk radio show host in the 1990s). It could have been a draw as well, but Kaine won, but barely. Clinton is probably happy that she picked him, because he made the case for her campaign and her Presidency in some regards.

[GeorgiaModerate]

This reminds me a bit of after the 1988 VP debate, when many people were wishing Bentsen and Dukakis were reversed on the Democratic ticket.  There was a political cartoon that showed a couple of campaign signs that looked like this:

BUSH
Quayle

Dukakis
BENTSEN

[Badger]

Are you seriously trying to argue that Obama won the first 2012 debate?

Yes. He did. He very clearly did.

I guess that explains Obama's bump in the polls following the debate...oh wait

And this is why I periodically consider putting Bandit on Ignore.

[cinyc]

Maybe this is a Northeastern thing, but I have no idea why anyone would be bothered by someone interrupting a stupid person as he tells lie after lie. If I were in the same room as someone like Mike Pence, I'd talk over him too.

The problem is that Kaine wasn't just trying to talk over Pence when Pence supposedly lied, but in times when he should have just shut his mouth, like when Pence said he was in Washington during 9/11.  I don't think anyone did a word cloud for the debate, but I wouldn't be surprised if the number one word associated with Kaine during the debate was "obnoxious".  He interrupted far too much.

[apricot]

 So if Pence won the debate, it did not help Trump in the polls. Hillary's numbers are up on 538 polls post debate.

[ApatheticAustrian]

there haven't been any real post-debate polls, i figure but it would be strange anyway if one of the least-watched VP debates helped people decide who have been waiting for months to make up their mind.

[Lincoln Republican]

Obviously Pence won the debate.

Kaine was acting like a kid in a school yard always trying to yell louder than anybody else to get attention, making a fool of himself in the process.

Pence was cool, calm, and collected.

Pence was presidential.

Kaine was childish.

Gotta ask you, does substance mean anything to you, or just the superficial stuff?

By his childish behavior, Kaine certainly displayed no substance whatsoever.

[Lincoln Republican]

there haven't been any real post-debate polls, i figure but it would be strange anyway if one of the least-watched VP debates helped people decide who have been waiting for months to make up their mind.

Yes there are. 

Pence wins.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/05/politics/mike-pence-tim-kaine-vp-debate-poll/index.html

[ApatheticAustrian]

there haven't been any real post-debate polls, i figure but it would be strange anyway if one of the least-watched VP debates helped people decide who have been waiting for months to make up their mind.

Yes there are. 

Pence wins.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/05/politics/mike-pence-tim-kaine-vp-debate-poll/index.html

pardon, i didn't express myself clearly enough.

referring to the other comment about "not helping trump", i replied that even if this pence victory (no game) would have had any positive result for trump's polling (i doubt it very much...even if hillary's debate victory could be fading a little bit right now)...there are no polls regarding trump's standing done AFTER the debate.

ofc pence has won and ofc there are polls about THAT.

[Lincoln Republican]

there haven't been any real post-debate polls, i figure but it would be strange anyway if one of the least-watched VP debates helped people decide who have been waiting for months to make up their mind.

Yes there are. 

Pence wins.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/05/politics/mike-pence-tim-kaine-vp-debate-poll/index.html

pardon, i didn't express myself clearly enough.

referring to the other comment about "not helping trump", i replied that even if this pence victory (no game) would have had any positive result for trump's polling (i doubt it very much...even if hillary's debate victory could be fading a little bit right now)...there are no polls regarding trump's standing done AFTER the debate.

ofc pence has won and ofc there are polls about THAT.

Correct, the VP debate has not and will not move votes.

Even in 1988 when Bentsen had a clear win over Quayle, Bush went on to have a big win over Dukakis, for example. 

[Ebowed]

By his childish behavior, Kaine certainly displayed no substance whatsoever.

We must have different definitions.  By repeatedly lying and refusing to admit when he was wrong, Pence displayed immense childishness.  I think the most telling thing, however, was his inability to defend even more childish running mate Donald Trump.

[ApatheticAustrian]

according to morning consult, the debate was won by...don't know.

https://t.co/GMBtL5s41b