July 2005 Budget

[jokerman]

Corporate welfare aught to be cut.  The best thing we could do is expand our tax base a bit and get rid of a bunch of tax breaks for corporations.  The problem is they are always snuck in the tax code here and there, there's no main place we can just eliminate or cut.  I propose we get a commission together to get it done.

[King]

King, may I ask what source you are using for your numbers? I just want to keep everything consistent; my source seems to provide different values.

What do you mean by different values?

[Emsworth]

King, may I ask what source you are using for your numbers? I just want to keep everything consistent; my source seems to provide different values.

What do you mean by different values?

For instance, I have something like $66 million as the appropriation for the Appalachian Regional Commission, not the $109 million suggested. (source)

[Peter]

In addition, I think we should also think about creating a small national marijuana tax, now that it's been legalized. 

Don't know how much or how little revenue that would produce, but any little bit helps.

Whilst the Feds have removed its restrictions, I'm not aware of any Region actually removing its prohibitions, except Medical Marijuana in the Pacific.

We capped Agriculture subsidies recently, but is there any scope to actually cut some of them back.

[Emsworth]

There has been no debate for over twenty-four hours. I will now be opening a vote in a separate thread.

[Emsworth]

We capped Agriculture subsidies recently, but is there any scope to actually cut some of them back.

The caps don't take effect until 2007. If we let them take effect next year, we save $9 billion.

[Emsworth]

The Constitution's balanced budget requirement ("The total overspent on each and every Budget and its Appropriations must not exceed 2% of the GDP") applies only to the Final Budget passed each October. This is because Appropriations are only determined "after the Final Version of the Budget is approved by the Senate."

Therefore, even if the present version of the Budget is not balanced, it can still be constitutionally approved. Pursuant to the Senate Official Procedural Resolution, the vote on approving the Budget can occur later today, unless there are further amendments that any Senator wishes to propose.

[Sam Spade]

The Constitution's balanced budget requirement ("The total overspent on each and every Budget and its Appropriations must not exceed 2% of the GDP") applies only to the Final Budget passed each October. This is because Appropriations are only determined "after the Final Version of the Budget is approved by the Senate."

Therefore, even if the present version of the Budget is not balanced, it can still be constitutionally approved. Pursuant to the Senate Official Procedural Resolution, the vote on approving the Budget can occur later today, unless there are further amendments that any Senator wishes to propose.

Interesting interpretation of the amendment.

Not one that I would agree with, and the Supreme Court might not either, but I'm not going to voice any huge objections.

[Emsworth]

If you disagree, of course, I do not mind delaying the vote until the Budget is balanced.

So, Senators, any ideas? (I'm not nitpicking, as I am guilty of this myself, but so far we seem to have concentrated on the minutiae of spending. Major action is clearly needed.)

[Sam Spade]

If you disagree, of course, I do not mind delaying the vote until the Budget is balanced.

So, Senators, any ideas? (I'm not nitpicking, as I am guilty of this myself, but so far we seem to have concentrated on the minutiae of spending. Major action is clearly needed.)

I'm not going to voice any grand objections. 

I have already proposed getting rid of the Medicare Drug Benefit, which saves money big time on the long run, just not this year.

I would also be totally fine with DanielX's Farm Subsidy thing being moved back to this year, though I know these are still minutiae in the final assessment

[Emsworth]

Alright. I think that I shall confine myself to suggestions of just major cuts in the future.

The District of Columbia is under the jurisdiction of the Mideast; therefore, further federal funding of the district is not required. Estimated savings: $1.206 billion

Capping total farm subsidies: $9 billion

I hate to say it, but we can also look for cuts in other Agriculture Department programs. Here are the totals spent on each of the following subsidy programs:

Food stamp program: $30.668 billion
Child nutrition programs: $11.615 billion
Women, Infants, and Children program: $4.9 billion

I do not advocate the elimination of all these programs. However, they do need to be capped, and possibly cut, as they have grown greatly (in real terms) in the past few years.

[The Duke]

Might i suggest a formal decalration of war against terrorism?  It would waive completely the requirement to bring the deficit under 2%, as the Amendment exempts times of decalred war from the budget requirements.

Note that this is something coming from someone who was one of the only people to oppose the Amendment to begin with, and I think I was the first person to vote no in the public poll.

[King]

Might i suggest a formal decalration of war against terrorism?  It would waive completely the requirement to bring the deficit under 2%, as the Amendment exempts times of decalred war from the budget requirements.

Note that this is something coming from someone who was one of the only people to oppose the Amendment to begin with, and I think I was the first person to vote no in the public poll.

According to the Constitution, we cannot do anything until the budget is passed and therefore cannot declare a war on terrorism.

[The Duke]

Might i suggest a formal decalration of war against terrorism?  It would waive completely the requirement to bring the deficit under 2%, as the Amendment exempts times of decalred war from the budget requirements.

Note that this is something coming from someone who was one of the only people to oppose the Amendment to begin with, and I think I was the first person to vote no in the public poll.

According to the Constitution, we cannot do anything until the budget is passed and therefore cannot declare a war on terrorism.

We can pass the preliminary budget for the Seante session, then decalre war, then we can make the best decision we can on the deficit in the final budget in October.

[Sam Spade]

Fwiw, I support caps on the programs Emsworth listed and support John Ford's ideas on declaring war.

[Emsworth]

Declaring war on "terrorism" is certainly a novel idea, and probably would be deemed constitutional, though I don't think that it is in the spirit of the Constitution or the balanced budget provision.

I have to say that it certainly is difficult to come up with $300 billion in reductions, but there are still quite a few things we could do. I shall submit a few proposals later today.

[Emsworth]

Update:

The Atlasian Budget FY 2006[/b]

Branches of Government:
1.   Legislative Branch:  $4.290 billion (-$0.086 billion)
2.   Judicial Branch:  $6.042 billion (-$0.001 billion)
3.      Executive Branch:
         a.  Executive Office of the President:  $0.342 billion
         b.  General Services Administration:  $0.210 billion (-$0.020 billion)
         c.  Other Independent Agencies:  $14.064 billion (-$3.020 billion)
Total:  $27.688 billion

Cabinet Departments

1.      Defense and Security Department:  $627.627 billion
         a.  Corps of Engineers – Civil Works:  $0 (-$3.989 billion)
         b.  Defense Sub-Dept. (military):  $432.853 billion (+$30.220 billion)
         c.  Energy Sub-Dept.:  $20.718 billion (-$1.380 billion)
         d.  Environmental Protection Agency (EPA):  $7.636 billion
         e.  Homeland Security Sub-Dept.:  $31.414 billion
         f.   Interior Sub-Dept.:  $10.596 billion (+$0.005 billion)
         g.  National Aeronautics and Space Administration:  $16.245 billion
         h.  Other Defense Civil Programs:  $40.480 billion (-$0.025 billion)
         i.   Veterans Affairs Sub-Dept.:  $65.285 billion

2.  Treasury and Social Services Department  $1,897.701 billion ($1.90 trillion)
         a.  Agriculture Sub-Dept.:  $84.283 billion (+$1.000 billion)
         b.  Commerce Sub-Dept:  $4.989 billion (-$0.848 billion)
         c.  Education Sub-Dept.:  $66.434 billion
         d.  Health and Human Services Sub-Dept.:  $571.589 billion
         e.  Housing and Urban Development Sub-Dept.:  $34.042 billion
         f.   Labor Sub-Dept.:  $57.321 billion
         g.  National Science Foundation:  $5.770 billion
         h.  Office of Personnel Management:  $63.688 billion
         i.   Small Business Administration:  $0 (-$0.681 billion)
         j.   Social Security Administration:  $555.031 billion
         k.  Transportation Sub-Dept.:  $58.098 billion (-$0.278 billion)
         l.   Treasury Sub-Dept.:  $396.456 billion (-$0.055 billion)

3.  Justice Dept:  $17.801 billion (-$3.975 billion)

4.  State and International Affairs Dept.  $21.148 billion
         a.  State Sub-Dept.:  $10.903 billion (+0.010 billion)
         b.  International Assistance Programs:  $10.245 billion

Total:  $2,609.320 billion ($2.61 trillion)

Allowances:  -$0.798 billion

Total (BA):  $2,604.547 billion ($2.60 trillion)
Offsetting Receipts:  $111.204 billion

PROPOSED BUDGET
$2,477.223 Billion[/b][/i]
PROJECTED REVENUES
$1,971.000 Billion[/i]
PROJECTED BUDGET DEFICIT
$506.223 Billion[/i]

Maximum permissible deficit: $219.060 billion
The current deficit must be cut by: $287.163 billion

[Emsworth]

What do the Senators feel about:

- Capping food stamps at $20 billion (savings: $10 billion)
- Capping child nutrition programs at $7 billion (savings: $4 billion)
- Eliminating the Women, Infants, and Children program (savings: $5 billion)
- Eliminating federal aid to D.C., which is already under the jurisdiction of the Mideast (savings: $1 billion)
- Capping farm subsidies one year early (savings: $9 billion)
- Abolishing the Universal Service Fund (savings: $7 billion)
- Borrowing money from the Social Security Trust Fund (which has about $1.6 trillion available, for anyone who's interested)?

[The Duke]

What do the Senators feel about:

- Capping food stamps at $20 billion (savings: $10 billion)
- Capping child nutrition programs at $7 billion (savings: $4 billion)
- Eliminating the Women, Infants, and Children program (savings: $5 billion)
- Eliminating federal aid to D.C., which is already under the jurisdiction of the Mideast (savings: $1 billion)
- Capping farm subsidies one year early (savings: $9 billion)
- Abolishing the Universal Service Fund (savings: $7 billion)
- Borrowing money from the Social Security Trust Fund (which has about $1.6 trillion available, for anyone who's interested)?

I disagree that the Social Security Trust Fund has $1.6 Trillion.  The value of the government bonds in the trust fund is about one tenth that figure.

The reason that Social Security keeps reporting these "trust fund" values so high is that they are owed the money by the general refvenue fund that the general revenue fund has consistently stolen from social security.  Any taking of money from the trust fund would not produce savings because each dollar taken from the trust fund is paid for by the expenditure of another dollar from the general revenue fund to Social Security.

[Sam Spade]

What do the Senators feel about:

- Capping food stamps at $20 billion (savings: $10 billion)
- Capping child nutrition programs at $7 billion (savings: $4 billion)
- Eliminating the Women, Infants, and Children program (savings: $5 billion)
- Eliminating federal aid to D.C., which is already under the jurisdiction of the Mideast (savings: $1 billion)
- Capping farm subsidies one year early (savings: $9 billion)
- Abolishing the Universal Service Fund (savings: $7 billion)
- Borrowing money from the Social Security Trust Fund (which has about $1.6 trillion available, for anyone who's interested)?

John Ford is quite right on the SS Trust Fund.  We both looked at that earlier.

This things I support wholeheartedly:

- Capping food stamps at $20 billion (savings: $10 billion)
- Capping child nutrition programs at $7 billion (savings: $4 billion)
- Eliminating federal aid to D.C., which is already under the jurisdiction of the Mideast (savings: $1 billion)
- Capping farm subsidies one year early (savings: $9 billion)

Total savings: $24 billion

In these things, I support cutting by 50%, not eliminating, the programs:

- Eliminating the Women, Infants, and Children program (savings: $5 billion) (my opinion $2.5 billion)
- Abolishing the Universal Service Fund (savings: $7 billion) (my opinion $3.5 billion)

Total savings: $6 billion

[jokerman]

As far as borowing from the Social Security fund -hell no.

As I've said before I have a tax reform bill that will increase revenue by tens of billions of dollars.  I also feel that we should still form a commission to weed out unecesary corporate welfare from the tax code and dept. of commerce budget.

[Sam Spade]

As per John Ford's suggestions, I would propose re-adding these things to the budget:

Export-Import Bank - $1.044 billion;
Assistance for Former Soviet Union - $484 million;

[Emsworth]

As I've said before I have a tax reform bill that will increase revenue by tens of billions of dollars.  I also feel that we should still form a commission to weed out unecesary corporate welfare from the tax code and dept. of commerce budget.

You could propose those tax reforms as a part of the Budget, if you like.

[Sam Spade]

Bumping this up.  If Preston would like to propose his tax reforms, I think it would be good to do it now.

Personally, I'm withdrawing my repeal of the Prescription Drug Benefit, mainly because I want to deal with it during the normal session.

Otherwise, if no one has any revenue/slashing suggestions, I would suggest that we bring this thing to a vote in a few days.

[Emsworth]

Update:

The Atlasian Budget FY 2006[/b]

Branches of Government:
1.   Legislative Branch:  $4.290 billion (-$0.086 billion)
2.   Judicial Branch:  $6.042 billion (-$0.001 billion)
3.      Executive Branch:
         a.  Executive Office of the President:  $0.342 billion
         b.  General Services Administration:  $0.210 billion (-$0.020 billion)
         c.  Other Independent Agencies:  $10.402 billion (-$6.682 billion)
Total:  $27.688 billion

Cabinet Departments

1.      Defense and Security Department:  $627.627 billion
         a.  Corps of Engineers – Civil Works:  $0 (-$3.989 billion)
         b.  Defense Sub-Dept. (military):  $432.853 billion (+$30.220 billion)
         c.  Energy Sub-Dept.:  $20.718 billion (-$1.380 billion)
         d.  Environmental Protection Agency (EPA):  $7.636 billion
         e.  Homeland Security Sub-Dept.:  $31.414 billion
         f.   Interior Sub-Dept.:  $10.596 billion (+$0.005 billion)
         g.  National Aeronautics and Space Administration:  $16.245 billion
         h.  Other Defense Civil Programs:  $40.480 billion (-$0.025 billion)
         i.   Veterans Affairs Sub-Dept.:  $65.285 billion

2.  Treasury and Social Services Department  $1,872.201 billion ($1.90 trillion)
         a.  Agriculture Sub-Dept.:  $56.783 billion (-$15.500 billion)
         b.  Commerce Sub-Dept:  $4.989 billion (-$0.848 billion)
         c.  Education Sub-Dept.:  $66.434 billion
         d.  Health and Human Services Sub-Dept.:  $571.589 billion
         e.  Housing and Urban Development Sub-Dept.:  $34.042 billion
         f.   Labor Sub-Dept.:  $57.321 billion
         g.  National Science Foundation:  $5.770 billion
         h.  Office of Personnel Management:  $63.688 billion
         i.   Small Business Administration:  $0 (-$0.681 billion)
         j.   Social Security Administration:  $555.031 billion
         k.  Transportation Sub-Dept.:  $58.098 billion (-$0.278 billion)
         l.   Treasury Sub-Dept.:  $396.456 billion (-$0.055 billion)

3.  Justice Dept:  $17.801 billion (-$3.975 billion)

4.  State and International Affairs Dept.  $21.632 billion
         a.  State Sub-Dept.:  $10.903 billion (+0.010 billion)
         b.  International Assistance Programs:  $10.729 billion (-$8.496 billion)

Total:  $2,609.320 billion ($2.61 trillion)

Allowances:  -$0.798 billion

Total (BA):  $2,604.547 billion ($2.60 trillion)
Offsetting Receipts:  $111.204 billion

PROPOSED BUDGET
$2,448.545 Billion[/b][/i]
PROJECTED REVENUES
$1,971.000 Billion[/i]
PROJECTED BUDGET DEFICIT
$477.545 Billion[/i]