Do you WANT Trump to drop out?

[muon2]

The GOP knew who he was and what his character was like before the convention. They could have stepped in, but they didn't. It's time they reap what they were sowing.

As I asked before, what could they have done without violating their own rules? As the convention showed on Monday that week there were not enough delegates to change the rules on the floor. It was tried but came up short. The Pubs didn't have a large block of superdelegates to swing the outcome like Dems would have, and the vast majority of delegates were bound by the primary results.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Anyways, if you want to deny that you're complicit in this muon, deny away. The candidate that you endorsed, Marco Rubio, endorsed Donald Trump. In a sense, this means that you also endorsed Trump. It doesn't appear that you made any sort of effort to condemn him in public or to take any sort of stand against Trump. You are complicit.  

I can rest easy knowing that I will have voted for Hillary Clinton, never having supported Donald Trump or anyone even remotely associated to his disgusting, rancid ideology that is founded upon misogyny, racism and nativism.

edit: for what it's worth muon, I think you're a reasonable guy. There's still time to endorse Hillary Clinton and take a stand against this monster. If that's what you feel is right, you should do it. It's something that would make you look very good in a decade or two. Plenty of people in your own party would applaud you...

[muon2]

The GOP made him happen and they need to deal with the consequences.

I keep hearing this like the party is a monolith that can control the primaries. A large number of disciplined, seasoned candidates challenged him to no avail. Any number of times neverTrumpers spoke out and even spent money to try to change the trajectory. Outside of cancelling the primaries and having states just pick slates of delegates at state conventions, what could they have done to not "make him happen"?

You are personally responsible for Trump: you endorsed him when you had the option to disavow him. Why did you endorse him? If I am recalling this correctly, you endorsed him because of his stances on welfare/entitlements.

You reap what you sow.

You've said that before, but I am not aware of any such endorsement. I endorsed Rubio in the primary and reported on that in threads related to the IA caucuses.

You're being evasive: I am not referring to the GOP primary, I am referring to the general election.

I've never endorsed in the general election. I attended the RNC as an at-large alternate delegate and cast no votes there. I reported here on what I saw there, but those none of those reports were an endorsement.

Come on man, we all know that you support(ed?) Donald Trump in the general election. I mean, what else is "party unity" supposed to mean? There's no need to be evasive. Regardless, why did you attend the RNC if you knew what the outcome was going to be? If you were opposed to Trump, why didn't you walk out?

I was selected in part to provide analytical assistance to the state party should there be not be a first ballot nominee. The Rules committee report was not known until just before the convention started and there were potential floor challenges to that report that would change the standard for a first ballot nomination. I left after the voting was concluded on Tuesday, and did not stay for the speeches on the next two days.

[muon2]

Anyways, if you want to deny that you're complicit in this muon, deny away. The candidate that you endorsed, Marco Rubio, endorsed Donald Trump. In a sense, this means that you also endorsed Trump. It doesn't appear that you made any sort of effort to condemn him in public or to take any sort of stand against Trump. You are complicit.  

I can rest easy knowing that I will have voted for Hillary Clinton, never having supported Donald Trump or anyone even remotely associated to his disgusting, rancid ideology that is founded upon misogyny, racism and nativism.

edit: for what it's worth muon, I think you're a reasonable guy. There's still time to endorse Hillary Clinton and take a stand against this monster. If that's what you feel is right, you should do it. It's something that would make you look very good in a decade or two. Plenty of people in your own party would applaud you...

My impressions in my quote you posted were genuine, and I think Ryan is smart enough to know how he would have had to run things from the Speaker's office if he needed to. I was clearly wrong in my impressions about the influence of Trump's staff on Trump. But that was clear within a week after the convention.

I've discussed (mostly with Tony) at length on other threads what factors will determine my vote. There have been many races over the years where I have withheld a public endorsement, but still cast a private vote.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Anyways, if you want to deny that you're complicit in this muon, deny away. The candidate that you endorsed, Marco Rubio, endorsed Donald Trump. In a sense, this means that you also endorsed Trump. It doesn't appear that you made any sort of effort to condemn him in public or to take any sort of stand against Trump. You are complicit.  

I can rest easy knowing that I will have voted for Hillary Clinton, never having supported Donald Trump or anyone even remotely associated to his disgusting, rancid ideology that is founded upon misogyny, racism and nativism.

edit: for what it's worth muon, I think you're a reasonable guy. There's still time to endorse Hillary Clinton and take a stand against this monster. If that's what you feel is right, you should do it. It's something that would make you look very good in a decade or two. Plenty of people in your own party would applaud you...

My impressions in my quote you posted were genuine, and I think Ryan is smart enough to know how he would have had to run things from the Speaker's office if he needed to. I was clearly wrong in my impressions about the influence of Trump's staff on Trump. But that was clear within a week after the convention.

I've discussed (mostly with Tony) at length on other threads what factors will determine my vote. There have been many races over the years where I have withheld a public endorsement, but still cast a private vote.

Well, I clearly misunderstood your stance towards Trump and I apologize for that misunderstanding but I still consider you to be something of a coward and I don't apologize for feeling this way.

[muon2]

Anyways, if you want to deny that you're complicit in this muon, deny away. The candidate that you endorsed, Marco Rubio, endorsed Donald Trump. In a sense, this means that you also endorsed Trump. It doesn't appear that you made any sort of effort to condemn him in public or to take any sort of stand against Trump. You are complicit.  

I can rest easy knowing that I will have voted for Hillary Clinton, never having supported Donald Trump or anyone even remotely associated to his disgusting, rancid ideology that is founded upon misogyny, racism and nativism.

edit: for what it's worth muon, I think you're a reasonable guy. There's still time to endorse Hillary Clinton and take a stand against this monster. If that's what you feel is right, you should do it. It's something that would make you look very good in a decade or two. Plenty of people in your own party would applaud you...

My impressions in my quote you posted were genuine, and I think Ryan is smart enough to know how he would have had to run things from the Speaker's office if he needed to. I was clearly wrong in my impressions about the influence of Trump's staff on Trump. But that was clear within a week after the convention.

I've discussed (mostly with Tony) at length on other threads what factors will determine my vote. There have been many races over the years where I have withheld a public endorsement, but still cast a private vote.

Well, I clearly misunderstood your stance towards Trump and I apologize for that misunderstanding but I still consider you to be something of a coward and I don't apologize for feeling this way.

I understand. Parties nominate unacceptable candidates sometimes, like Keyes for IL Sen in 2004. But the parties exist for more than one race in one year, and Keyes was an anomaly and not a lasting change for the IL GOP. I'm not going to abandon a party because of any single nomination and I'd rather look to the long term. But if that's your definition of cowardice I'll live with that though I disagree.

[ElectionsGuy]

I want both of them to drop out.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

@Muon: From what was said at the convention in the ruckus over the rules report, it sounds like there were originally enough states signing on to get a full-convention roll call vote on the rules, but then top party leaders whipped a couple of states into un-signing the relevant petitions. You're saying there weren't enough delegates to do it period, but the impression that I got at the time is that there was enough, but party leaders screamed until enough people said "Fine, we won't do it, just to get you to stop bothering us."  So Party Leaders could have easily just refrained from whipping states into unsigning said petitions. Even if the roll call vote on the rules as they stood got the needed votes, they could still claim the moral high ground by saying they left the final choice of being bound or not up to the delegates themselves.

[President Johnson]

No. I want him to lose. Badly.

[muon2]

@Muon: From what was said at the convention in the ruckus over the rules report, it sounds like there were originally enough states signing on to get a full-convention roll call vote on the rules, but then top party leaders whipped a couple of states into un-signing the relevant petitions. You're saying there weren't enough delegates to do it period, but the impression that I got at the time is that there was enough, but party leaders screamed until enough people said "Fine, we won't do it, just to get you to stop bothering us."  So Party Leaders could have easily just refrained from whipping states into unsigning said petitions. Even if the roll call vote on the rules as they stood got the needed votes, they could still claim the moral high ground by saying they left the final choice of being bound or not up to the delegates themselves.

It wasn't clear who was whipping those states, since both Trump and Preibus had teams on the floor and in back rooms. There were two groups looking for a fight, the neverTrumps and the Cruz faction. They seemed to have had a weak alliance at best since most of the neverTrumps didn't particularly think Cruz was a good alternative. The lack of organization between those forces on the floor tended to put some top RNC types in the position to prefer no floor fight. It also didn't help that the second biggest block of votes were for Cruz, who at that time was probably the only candidate less acceptable to the Washington insiders than Trump. Plus as I noted in my post at the time, Trump was showing signs of listening to advice, signs that didn't last after the convention.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

. Parties nominate unacceptable candidates sometimes, like Keyes for IL Sen in 2004. But the parties exist for more than one race in one year, and Keyes was an anomaly and not a lasting change for the IL GOP. I'm not going to abandon a party because of any single nomination and I'd rather look to the long term.

The problem is, Trump wasn't an anomaly for the national GOP. Still a bit of an outlier, but not an anomaly.  The way Trump is going down in flames is not what I'd hoped for.  It means there will be at least another four years of Republicans not seeing the truth of what has happened to the Grand Old Party, and it makes it less likely I'll be able to return to my preferred stance of being an Independent rather than a Democrat.  Make no mistake, the sole reason I consider myself a Democrat is the complete and utter mess the Republican Party has made of itself, and the complete and utter unwillingness of respectable people in the party to do anything about it beyond complain and assert it's just an anomaly.

I realize that electorally it would get uncomfortable and that it probably will take some decades deep in the political wilderness for the GOP to mend its ways. Which is why I'll probably end up being a Democrat the rest of my life, as right now the GOP is only on the edges of said wilderness, tho resolutely taking steps to head deeper into it. Even now the GOP leadership is only condemning Trump the man and not the values and craziness he stood for because they don't want to alienate Trump voters.

[SATW]

Yes, plz.

[Person Man]

It would be good if he did. We just can't risk Trump being president. Maybe he will be OK or maybe the wheels would really start to come off. I don't know. With Bush, we had a minor recession, then a pointless small war and very mediocre economy, and then a major recession. I think Bush's presidency is Trump's ceiling. I don't know if there would be a floor. Many people say there is none but maybe there is.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

It would be good if he did. We just can't risk Trump being president.

This.

[Boston Bread]

It's funny how on this forum, D's don't want Trump to drop out and Rs do. In reality, 70% of Democrats want Trump to drop out and only 12% of Republicans do.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/politico-morning-consult-poll-229394

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

No, I want Trump to drop dead.

[Clark Kent]

Trump is a rapist and a fascist who has stolen or been given everything he has. He has never won anything (I doubt he even knows how to spell "win" much less what it means). Of course he should drop out and do something not completely awful for once in his life.

[Sir Mohamed]

No. I want to see his orange face when he goes down in flames on election night. He and the GOP must suffer the conequences of their missbehavior.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Yes

[Monolith]

For no other reason other than to see how the RNC would handle the situation this close to November

[Anti-Bothsidesism]

no. I want the GOP to face the consequences of who they voted for and nominated.

[White Trash]

Yes. I don't care about punishing "the other side". That's immature and does nothing in the long run. I want both of the candidates running to be competent and honest people of good nature and will.

[nclib]

no. I want the GOP to face the consequences of who they voted for and nominated.

Agreed.

from muon2

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Republicans' mean-spiritedness and putting partisanship and ideology over civility, increased the chance that Trump would be nominated. This is why there would never be a Donald Trump equivalent regardless of ideology getting through a Democratic primary. Also, even if the Republican leadership is not to blame, a plurality of Republicans still voted for him.

[Young Conservative]

no. I want the GOP to face the consequences of who they voted for and nominated.

I and the majority of Republicans did NOT vote for that man and I for one never will.

[Mr. Smith]

Can't decide.