Liberals Ready to Abandon Abortion as an Issue

[dazzleman]

I really can't believe that liberals are ready to abandon abortion as an issue.  It is too much of a primary concern for backbone liberal voters like the hysterical and strident feminists.

I think it would be best for our whole political process if the Roe vs. Wade decision, which was a very bad one in my opinion, were overturned and the issue turned over to the state legislatures.  I don't think much would change in any case, and it would improve our public discourse.

It is almost the worst thing for liberals to be forced to cling to this decision, and put everything on this decision.  This has turned out to be a pyrrhic victory for feminists.  They have mortgaged most of their movement to this issue, and are still sweating bullets over every Supreme Court appointment 32 years later.  If abortion were approved in some form, and to some degree, by state legislatures, it would be much more durable.

But I don't think most liberals are capable of thinking this far outside the box.  If they were, they would long ago have abandoned what passes for the liberal philosophy today.

[Democratic Hawk]

Tell that to any Democrat on this board.

Well, if the Democratic Party makes a clear shift from being pro-choice to pro-life, I'd very much welcome that. There are quite a few pro-life Democrats on the Forum

I, for one, don't think abortion should be a matter of personal choice, more a case of medical emergency or psychological necessity

If states guaranteed the rights to abortion out of such emergency and/or necessity, I see no reason why Roe v Wade shouldn't be overturned

Abortion should never be a decision borne out of choice

Dave

[TheresNoMoney]

Well, if the Democratic Party makes a clear shift from being pro-choice to pro-life, I'd very much welcome that. There are quite a few pro-life Democrats on the Forum

Then the >60% of Americans who are pro-choice would have no major party that represents their views. 

Pro-life Democrats are welcome in the party, but overall the party will remain pro-choice. Democrats will work to greatly decrease the number of unwanted pregnancies and abortions in this country through sex education, access to contraception, and increasing the economic well-being of lower and middle class Americans. This is the most productive and least divisive of abortion measures.

[The Vorlon]

The reason the GOP has done well lately on the abortion issues is they control congress and can thus force the Dems to go on the record for the various silly positions that are part of the Democrats Ideological orthodoxy.

The Dems did the same thing to the GOP when they controlled Congress on a variety of gun control related issues.

Two quick examples:

Should there be parental notification before a 14 year old girl gets an abortion? - The vast majority of folks say yes.  Heck a 14 year old needs parential consent to get their ears pierced, and rather clearly a pregnant 14 year old child urgently needs adult intervention in her life.

The vast vast majority of people agree with this very common sense position, so the GOP makes the Dems vote against it time and time again... hence the GOP is the "reasonable" party on abortion.

Back when the GOP was in the minority, the Dems would propose a 3 day waiting period before you could purchase a Multi megaton MIRVed ICBM at a gun show and make the GOP vote against it.. Hence the Dems were the "reasonable" ones on Gun Control.

Same shoe, just now on a different foot.

[Blue Rectangle]

Well, if the Democratic Party makes a clear shift from being pro-choice to pro-life, I'd very much welcome that. There are quite a few pro-life Democrats on the Forum

Then the >60% of Americans who are pro-choice would have no major party that represents their views. 

Polling Report's list of abortion polls

All the polls I saw with the self-indentified pro-choice/pro-life question show a 50/50 split (within MOE).  Polls that offer the choices of abortion: always/mostly/rarely/never legal routinely show a majority favoring the rarely or never options.  Large majorities in several polls favor greater restrictions or outright bans on abortion.  Specific issues such as parental notification laws or partial-birth bans have support in the 70s and 80s.

[Lincoln Republican]

The radical screaming raving looney wacko leftist pro abortion on demand femi nazis in the Democratic party would never allow such a proposal to even be debated let alone countenance a change in the Dem platform on the abortion issue.  Most of them even support partial birth abortions, which is another name for baby killing.

[TeePee4Prez]

What you have to remember is that any decision like this is made out of some pretty cold electoral calculation. If the Democrats drop abortion as an issue they obvious reckon that there's more votes to be gained (sorry, regained) out of it than votes that'd be lost due to it.
Political geography plays a role too; a vote in (say) Southeast Ohio is worth more than a vote in (say) suburban New York.

It gets quite quirky because virtually every poll shows that between 55-60% believe abortion should be always or mostly legal, and 65% or so believe roe vs wade should not be overturned.  However as you do point out more votes could be gained by them dropping the issue.  Thos e in suburban NY (me for example) may not like the fact they are dropping the abortion issue, but in the end of the day will still vote Dem, meanwhile somone in Southern Ohio dropping abortion may get that  vote.

However I still think the Dems should keep the issue.  It is something most of the country agrees with the Democrats on

I'm not ready to sacrifice Montgomery and Bucks conuties just yet to pick up some boondock one in central PA.  The boonie county in central PA has no money, maybe some from a union, but that's it.  We are NEVER getting back the populist areas we once had.

[Smash255]

Well, if the Democratic Party makes a clear shift from being pro-choice to pro-life, I'd very much welcome that. There are quite a few pro-life Democrats on the Forum

Then the >60% of Americans who are pro-choice would have no major party that represents their views. 

Polling Report's list of abortion polls

All the polls I saw with the self-indentified pro-choice/pro-life question show a 50/50 split (within MOE).  Polls that offer the choices of abortion: always/mostly/rarely/never legal routinely show a majority favoring the rarely or never options.  Large majorities in several polls favor greater restrictions or outright bans on abortion.  Specific issues such as parental notification laws or partial-birth bans have support in the 70s and 80s.

Ummm Say what???

NBC poll May 12-16

"Which of the following best represents your views about abortion? The choice on abortion should be left up to the woman and her doctor. Abortion should be legal only in cases in which pregnancy results from rape or incest or when the life of the woman is at risk. OR, Abortion should be illegal in all circumstances."

Woman & Doctor 55%, Rape, Incest Life of Woman 29%, Always Illegal 14%, Unsure 2%

ABC Poll from late April

"Do you think abortion should be legal in all cases, legal in most cases, illegal in most cases, or illegal in all cases?"

                        

.

"Do you think abortion should be legal in all cases, legal in most cases, illegal in most cases, or illegal in all cases?"

Legal in All cases 20%, Legal in Most Caes 36%, illegal in most cases 27%, always illegal 14%  Legal in all or most cases 56%, illegal in most or all cases 41%

Pew Research Poll June 8th -12th

"In 1973 the Roe versus Wade decision established a woman's constitutional right to an abortion, at least in the first three months of pregnancy. Would you like to see the Supreme Court completely overturn its Roe versus Wade decision, or not?"

Yes 30%, No 63%

While their is more of a split between those considering themselves pro-choice & pro-life, most feel that abortion should be legal in most or all cases.

Other polls on the site about sometimes legal, & when that gets added into the mix (sometimes legal gets the most support), but about 3/4 to 4/5 feel abortion should be at least sometimes legal.

Out of all the polls on polling report regardin g the always, mostly legal, mostly & always illegal (or usually legal, usually illegal) etc, their is one poll (LA Times that shows) more feel that it should be mostly or always illegal.  EVERY OTHER POLL with that type of questioning is in favor of abortion being always or mostly legal (usually between 55-60% in the always or msotly/usually legal range with around 40% in the always or mostly/usually illegal range.  & when sometimes is added to the mix mostly or sometimes legal jumps to near 80%

[Alcon]

The radical screaming raving looney wacko leftist pro abortion on demand femi nazis in the Democratic party would never allow such a proposal to even be debated let alone countenance a change in the Dem platform on the abortion issue.  Most of them even support partial birth abortions, which is another name for baby killing.

Commas!  Commas!  Breathe!

[Smash255]

The radical screaming raving looney wacko leftist pro abortion on demand femi nazis in the Democratic party would never allow such a proposal to even be debated let alone countenance a change in the Dem platform on the abortion issue.  Most of them even support partial birth abortions, which is another name for baby killing.

I guess your calling Rudy Giuliani a baby killer.  Te debate over the PBA had to do with their not being an exception for the health of the mother

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

From a political point of view, the Democrats should hope that Roe v. Wade is overturned.  Doing so would return the issue to the State legilslatures and would give them an issue with which to win them more than they would lose.  In patricular the Dems would likely gain complete control of the State Houses in Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota,  Nevada, New York, Oregon,  and could pick the lower House in Indiana.  The only States where it would be likely to hurt Democratic control or partial control are Montana and North Carolina.

There may be reasons for the Dems to filibuster Bush's nominee, but a narrow litmus test on this issue is not one of them.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

What you have to remember is that any decision like this is made out of some pretty cold electoral calculation. If the Democrats drop abortion as an issue they obvious reckon that there's more votes to be gained (sorry, regained) out of it than votes that'd be lost due to it.
Political geography plays a role too; a vote in (say) Southeast Ohio is worth more than a vote in (say) suburban New York.

They'll say goodbye to NH, NJ, DE, perhaps CA and ME.  I think that you just want the Republicans to win. It's 65%, you fool. The other less than 35% would never vote for us anyways.   those bigots.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

From a political point of view, the Democrats should hope that Roe v. Wade is overturned.  Doing so would return the issue to the State legilslatures and would give them an issue with which to win them more than they would lose.  In patricular the Dems would likely gain complete control of the State Houses in Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota,  Nevada, New York, Oregon,  and could pick the lower House in Indiana.  The only States where it would be likely to hurt Democratic control or partial control are Montana and North Carolina.

There may be reasons for the Dems to filibuster Bush's nominee, but a narrow litmus test on this issue is not one of them.

Exactly. Nowt like a carefully engineered backlash is there?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

They'll say goodbye to NH,

Perhaps

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Nope. Those two are all about turnout. Perhaps the Democrats would lose some of their edge. Perhaps.

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You're funny

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No... it's about 20%. Most people support restrictions of some kind. Most people would like this issue to go away.

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Wrong

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So someone that thinks Roe v Wade should be overturned is a "bigot"?
Wow. What leaps of logic where required to produce that seemingly insane statement, Archer?

Is being called a "bigot" by a social darwinist a compliment, btw?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Legal in All cases 20%, Legal in Most Caes 36%, illegal in most cases 27%, always illegal 14%  Legal in all or most cases 56%, illegal in most or all cases 41%

You can spin that as a 56/41 split if you like... but there's a huge difference between "mostly legal" and "always legal" int there?
You can also spin that as a 77/20 split (restrictions or no restrictions).
Statistics are fun, no?

Alternatively instead of trying to polarise people for no good reason you can have a 20/63/14 split

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Is being called a "bigot" by a social darwinist a compliment, btw?

Do you always call people to the left of you on economic issues social darwinists?

[The Duke]

I want everyone to take note: jfern actually said something useful.  He pointed out that Roe is already been overturned, and thenew abortion stadnard is Casey.

[Blue Rectangle]

Well, if the Democratic Party makes a clear shift from being pro-choice to pro-life, I'd very much welcome that. There are quite a few pro-life Democrats on the Forum

Then the >60% of Americans who are pro-choice would have no major party that represents their views. 

Polling Report's list of abortion polls

All the polls I saw with the self-indentified pro-choice/pro-life question show a 50/50 split (within MOE).  Polls that offer the choices of abortion: always/mostly/rarely/never legal routinely show a majority favoring the rarely or never options.  Large majorities in several polls favor greater restrictions or outright bans on abortion.  Specific issues such as parental notification laws or partial-birth bans have support in the 70s and 80s.

Ummm Say what???

There's a lot of polls there, so let's start with the claim you made that >60% of Americans are pro-choice.  There are three sets of polls that ask for self-indentification as pro-chioce or pro-life:

Gallup Poll (19 polls, 1996-2005)
Average self-indentified pro-chioce: 49%
Only 6 of the 19 polls had 50% or greater, and the most recent 6 were <50%

FOX News/Opinion Dynamics Poll (9 polls, 1999-2005)
Average self-indentified pro-chioce: 43%
Only 1 of these polls was over 45% (47%)

Time/CNN Poll (Harris, 4 polls, 1999-2003)
Average self-indentified pro-chioce: 47%
None above 50%

It is clear that people who consider themselves pro-choice has never been >60% and that the number is probably less than 50%.

[Cashcow]

First Gun Control, now Abortion, in the future hopefully Gay Rights, then the Democratic Party may return to where it was under the populists.

And the GOP is moving left under the neocons... do you really want two populist parties?

Ugh, merely the thought of that is vomit-inducing.

[jacob_101]

I am willing to put stock into the article's claims that Democrats in general are turning away from abortion as a wedge issue

The Republicans are the ones who have made it a wedge issue. They make all social issues wedge issues. Their economic policies suck, so they have to rely on divisive social wedge issues.

As long as some believe in a right or wrong, some issues will always be divisive.  It's not that a particular party is trying to make it divisive to meet an end.  Pro-life people actually believe it's wrong to abort babies, it has nothing to do with politics.

[Smash255]

Legal in All cases 20%, Legal in Most Caes 36%, illegal in most cases 27%, always illegal 14%  Legal in all or most cases 56%, illegal in most or all cases 41%

You can spin that as a 56/41 split if you like... but there's a huge difference between "mostly legal" and "always legal" int there?
You can also spin that as a 77/20 split (restrictions or no restrictions).
Statistics are fun, no?

Alternatively instead of trying to polarise people for no good reason you can have a 20/63/14 split

Their is a much bigger difference between mostly legal and mostly illegal.  Bottom line is the majority of American support abortion rights

[Smash255]

Well, if the Democratic Party makes a clear shift from being pro-choice to pro-life, I'd very much welcome that. There are quite a few pro-life Democrats on the Forum

Then the >60% of Americans who are pro-choice would have no major party that represents their views. 

Polling Report's list of abortion polls

All the polls I saw with the self-indentified pro-choice/pro-life question show a 50/50 split (within MOE).  Polls that offer the choices of abortion: always/mostly/rarely/never legal routinely show a majority favoring the rarely or never options.  Large majorities in several polls favor greater restrictions or outright bans on abortion.  Specific issues such as parental notification laws or partial-birth bans have support in the 70s and 80s.

Ummm Say what???

There's a lot of polls there, so let's start with the claim you made that >60% of Americans are pro-choice.  There are three sets of polls that ask for self-indentification as pro-chioce or pro-life:

Gallup Poll (19 polls, 1996-2005)
Average self-indentified pro-chioce: 49%
Only 6 of the 19 polls had 50% or greater, and the most recent 6 were <50%

FOX News/Opinion Dynamics Poll (9 polls, 1999-2005)
Average self-indentified pro-chioce: 43%
Only 1 of these polls was over 45% (47%)

Time/CNN Poll (Harris, 4 polls, 1999-2003)
Average self-indentified pro-chioce: 47%
None above 50%

It is clear that people who consider themselves pro-choice has never been >60% and that the number is probably less than 50%.

Once again while the split is closer for pro-choice & pro-life, the majority of Americans support abortion rights

[A18]

Bottom line is that most Americans favor some restrictions on abortion.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Their is a much bigger difference between mostly legal and mostly illegal.

Legally perhaps. Morally... no. Not really. See... that's the problem with the abortion debate; been mentioned by several posters before that there's really *two* debates going on.

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Bottom line is that the overwhelming majority of Americans are moderate on the abortion issue

[Smash255]

Their is a much bigger difference between mostly legal and mostly illegal.

Legally perhaps. Morally... no. Not really. See... that's the problem with the abortion debate; been mentioned by several posters before that there's really *two* debates going on.

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Bottom line is that the overwhelming majority of Americans are moderate on the abortion issue

Americans feel the courts should keep abortion legal by greater than a 2-1 margin