When feminists and liberal men disagree
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  When feminists and liberal men disagree
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Author Topic: When feminists and liberal men disagree  (Read 3232 times)
buritobr
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« on: October 14, 2016, 09:54:05 PM »

Feminists and liberal men agree in many issues. Both support legal abortion. Both support public childcare so that mothers of little children can work. Both care about the gender wage gap.

But there is one issue in which feminists and liberal men disagree: moral views about sex. Usually, liberal men think that some feminists are too puritan. Liberal men support legal prostitution. Liberal feminists support legal prostitution too, but other feminist groups, like the radical feminists, think that prostitution should not be legal. They think that pornography should not be legal too.
Liberal men think that no consensual relation between adults is bad. Many feminists have ethical concerns about some relations.
Both feminists and liberal men are against the sexist values of conservative societies which consider that men who have relations with many women are sucessful and women who have relations with many men are slut. But feminists and liberal men disagree about how to fight against these sexist values. Liberal men consider that women who have relation with many men should be accepted. Feminists consider that men who have relation with many women should not be accepted.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2016, 02:05:35 AM »

When feminists and liberal men disagree, this means liberal men are thinking with their dicks.
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CrabCake
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« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2016, 05:20:48 AM »
« Edited: October 15, 2016, 05:22:52 AM by 🦀🎂 »

Neither group are monolithic blocs.

Your post might as well be: "some feminists are liberals, some feminists follow some other ideology that isn't liberalism. What's the deal with that?"
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Person Man
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« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2016, 08:07:48 AM »

50/50 or 35/65 between Antonio and CC.
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Mercenary
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« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2016, 10:02:53 AM »

I am not fond of either group but based on the examples.provided in the opening post I have to say i would prefer the feminists over the liberal men.
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ElectionsGuy
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« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2016, 05:18:46 PM »

When feminists and liberal men disagree, this means liberal men are thinking with their dicks.

So people who think prostitution and porn are perfectly fine as long  as you're not engaging in abuse behavior are thinking with their dicks? How about liberal men who find it a little distasteful that these feminists are upset over little things like women's bodies in video games? Thinking with their dick?

Third wave feminism is all about talking about how everything in society is holding the woman down, blaming patriarchy and sexism for it, while ignoring issues that men suffer from more than women (education for example). Isn't feminism about equality between men and women, but when people bring up things like custody and how it actually hurts men more than women it either isn't talked about or dismissed as sexism.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2016, 05:32:41 PM »

When feminists and liberal men disagree, this means liberal men are thinking with their dicks.

So people who think prostitution and porn are perfectly fine as long  as you're not engaging in abuse behavior are thinking with their dicks? How about liberal men who find it a little distasteful that these feminists are upset over little things like women's bodies in video games? Thinking with their dick?

Most of them, yes.
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The Dowager Mod
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« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2016, 06:07:38 PM »

Okeedokee. Smiley
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Anna Komnene
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« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2016, 06:25:42 PM »

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Cory
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« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2016, 06:38:21 PM »

Third wave feminism is all about talking about how everything in society is holding the woman down, blaming patriarchy and sexism for it, while ignoring issues that men suffer from more than women (education for example). Isn't feminism about equality between men and women, but when people bring up things like custody and how it actually hurts men more than women it either isn't talked about or dismissed as sexism.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2016, 09:32:25 AM »

Third wave feminism is all about talking about how everything in society is holding the woman down, blaming patriarchy and sexism for it, while ignoring issues that men suffer from more than women (education for example). Isn't feminism about equality between men and women, but when people bring up things like custody and how it actually hurts men more than women it either isn't talked about or dismissed as sexism.

lol
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Goldwater
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« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2016, 12:38:51 PM »

When feminists and liberal men disagree, this means liberal men are thinking with their dicks.

What about feminists that take more liberal views on things like porn and prostitution? Are they also thinking with their dicks?
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Cathcon
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« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2016, 12:41:43 PM »

Related.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2016, 12:57:43 PM »

When feminists and liberal men disagree, this means liberal men are thinking with their dicks.

What about feminists that take more liberal views on things like porn and prostitution? Are they also thinking with their dicks?

No, I'm OK with feminist women (as well have men who have conclusively proven through their actions and everyday lives that they genuinely adhere to feminism) holding these views, even if I respectfully disagree with them.

Non-feminist or faux-feminist men who hold these views and are vocal about them, however, are THE WORST.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2016, 03:58:49 PM »
« Edited: October 16, 2016, 04:00:29 PM by DavidB. »

No, I'm OK with feminist women (as well have men who have conclusively proven through their actions and everyday lives that they genuinely adhere to feminism) holding these views, even if I respectfully disagree with them.
This sounds almost religious... and I'm saying this as someone who opposes both prostutition and watching porn.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2016, 04:24:35 PM »

No, I'm OK with feminist women (as well have men who have conclusively proven through their actions and everyday lives that they genuinely adhere to feminism) holding these views, even if I respectfully disagree with them.
This sounds almost religious... and I'm saying this as someone who opposes both prostutition and watching porn.

That's the attitude I'd take to any ideology. For example, it's a bit hard to call yourself a socialist if you make lots of money and evade your taxes. Or to call yourself pro-life if you coerce your mistress into aborting. I don't see what's specifically religious about it.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2016, 04:40:43 PM »

No, I'm OK with feminist women (as well have men who have conclusively proven through their actions and everyday lives that they genuinely adhere to feminism) holding these views, even if I respectfully disagree with them.
This sounds almost religious... and I'm saying this as someone who opposes both prostutition and watching porn.

     Third-wave feminism holds an attitude towards men that can be best likened to original sin. That is, men are sinful and must be purgated of that sin. Those who have not gone through the process of recognizing and atoning for their wrongs are inherently wicked.
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« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2016, 04:39:39 PM »

Anyone wanting to ban pornography is a fascist who should have no say in a free society. Those feminists have the right to their opinion, but they shouldn't describe themselves as liberal in any way.
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Nathan
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« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2016, 04:56:38 PM »

Anyone wanting to ban pornography is a fascist who should have no say in a free society.

Your cock is not entitled to cheap thrills, paying people to put up with sexual abuse is not 'speech', and filming paid sex acts for the delectation of third parties is even more objectionable than Prostitution Classic, not less.
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omegascarlet
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« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2016, 11:12:33 PM »

Anyone wanting to ban pornography is a fascist who should have no say in a free society.

Your cock is not entitled to cheap thrills, paying people to put up with sexual abuse is not 'speech', and filming paid sex acts for the delectation of third parties is even more objectionable than Prostitution Classic, not less.

If all parties are consenting and not coerced, I don't see it as ban worthy. Plus legit artistic works can have elements that could be construed as pornographic. And how would you even enforce a ban?
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CrabCake
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« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2016, 06:23:16 AM »

What is it about this topic that makes intelligent people on both sides become so dense?

Anyone wanting to ban pornography is a fascist who should have no say in a free society. Those feminists have the right to their opinion, but they shouldn't describe themselves as liberal in any way.

I don't think they do describe themselves as liberal though? Radfems typically loathe libfems.

No, I'm OK with feminist women (as well have men who have conclusively proven through their actions and everyday lives that they genuinely adhere to feminism) holding these views, even if I respectfully disagree with them.
This sounds almost religious... and I'm saying this as someone who opposes both prostutition and watching porn.

     Third-wave feminism holds an attitude towards men that can be best likened to original sin. That is, men are sinful and must be purgated of that sin. Those who have not gone through the process of recognizing and atoning for their wrongs are inherently wicked.

This is closer to certain beliefs of second wave feminism fwiw. Not that the third wave isn't capable of being groanworthy by itself.
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Goldwater
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« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2016, 11:01:06 AM »

What is it about this topic that makes intelligent people on both sides become so dense?

TBF, that seems to happen with many political issues. Tongue
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Nathan
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« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2016, 12:51:29 PM »

Anyone wanting to ban pornography is a fascist who should have no say in a free society.

Your cock is not entitled to cheap thrills, paying people to put up with sexual abuse is not 'speech', and filming paid sex acts for the delectation of third parties is even more objectionable than Prostitution Classic, not less.

If all parties are consenting and not coerced, I don't see it as ban worthy.

If wishes were horses, then beggars would ride.

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Those are the legitimately stymieing questions, yes.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2016, 02:07:30 PM »
« Edited: October 18, 2016, 02:09:23 PM by PiT, South Governor »

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This sounds almost religious... and I'm saying this as someone who opposes both prostutition and watching porn.
[/quote]

     Third-wave feminism holds an attitude towards men that can be best likened to original sin. That is, men are sinful and must be purgated of that sin. Those who have not gone through the process of recognizing and atoning for their wrongs are inherently wicked.
[/quote]

This is closer to certain beliefs of second wave feminism fwiw. Not that the third wave isn't capable of being groanworthy by itself.
[/quote]

     Honestly, the second and third waves are a lot more similar than people give them credit for. It irks me just a little when people identify as "second wave feminists", to distinguish themselves from the icky "third wave feminists", because it romanticizes an ahistorical version of the second wave that ignores things like political lesbianism and the SCUM Manifesto while playing up modern problems.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2016, 04:22:24 PM »

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...I don't know?

If this statement is intended to include me, I'd very much like to know in what way you think I'm wrong or what you think I'm missing. I value your opinion on these issues a lot.
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