The Atlas Hillary obsession
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Author Topic: The Atlas Hillary obsession  (Read 1014 times)
JA
Jacobin American
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« on: October 15, 2016, 05:14:03 AM »

This has been a peculiar feature of the Atlas forum community that I've noticed since joining. Many, although obviously not all, members seem to have some kind of adoration for  Sec. Clinton, almost to the point of veneration. Don't misunderstand, I'm not a Hillary hater - that should be obvious considering I support her. But I do acknowledge that she's a rather flawed candidate, even if all the right-wing allegations and witch hunts against her are completely insane. The most obvious example was her choice to use a personal email server. No, she didn't commit a crime, nor was it of the level of severity that many Republicans try to make it appear. But it was incredibly bad judgment and yes, she basically lied. She also helped promote the idea that a stupid video caused the attack in Benghazi that killed a US Ambassador, which was outright false. Sec. Clinton even promoted her husband's welfare reform by arguing that those stripped of state benefits were "no longer deadbeats." She has also promoted her husband's crime bill that expanded the death penalty and led to greater African American incarceration.

Unfortunately, the Clintons' have performed a long dance courting the line between ethically questionable and legally criminal. This, when combined with a right-wing hard-on to see them imprisoned and defamed,  their decades in the public spotlight, and mastery of politics, have led to Hillary being increasingly secretive, defensive, and perceived as untrustworthy, whether it's for her handling of her email server or position changes on issues like TPP. These can generally be accepted as facts about Sec. Clinton.

All of that leads me to the point of this thread, which is to ask why Atlas has such reverence for her. In comparison to Trump, yes, she is an infinitely better choice. Compared to Sanders, yes, she has a considerably better chance of passing legislation through a Congress she knows perfectly well how to navigate - for better or worse. She has a resume that few could match. There's absolutely no denying that she's exceptionally qualified for the Presidency, although there are legitimate concerns one could raise about her judgment and policy positions. With all of that said, the question remains why Atlas adores her so much. Why is that the case? Why do so many seem to glorify a woman who, while a good choice for the Presidency, is quite flawed and comes with lots of baggage? There's a difference between supporting a candidate and revering/adoring that candidate, so why choose the latter?

I guess this turned into a rant more than anything else, so thank you for reading it until the end. /end rant
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President Johnson
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« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2016, 05:17:29 AM »

Well, I can only speak for myself. I strongly support her bid for the presidency now, though she was not my first choice (that was Joe Biden, Jim Webb or my overall favorite would have been Jerry Brown). She has several short comings, but she's an able woman.
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JA
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« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2016, 05:30:17 AM »

Well, I can only speak for myself. I strongly support her bid for the presidency now, though she was not my first choice (that was Joe Biden, Jim Webb or my overall favorite would have been Jerry Brown). She has several short comings, but she's an able woman.

She wasn't my first choice either, that was Bernie Sanders, although the arguments she made against him were largely legitimate. She's my party's nominee and I happily support her with every hope that she's a successful President who's able to accomplish more during her tenure than President Obama, whose lack of political connections, ability to navigate Congress, and mere presence causes the right-wing to foam at the the mouth, has crippled his ability to be productive.
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Phony Moderate
Obamaisdabest
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« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2016, 05:38:33 AM »

This forum has always been quite heavily Democratic and Hillary is the Democratic nominee. It wasn't any different with Obama.
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CrabCake
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« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2016, 05:39:51 AM »

Queen
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2016, 07:53:22 AM »

For me Hillary is a lot of things (good and bad), but not even close to a person generating personal enthusiasm (outside of a small number of die-hard hacks; sorry guys, but she's still quite unpopular at large). I don't have to droll over her to hope she'll win this election.

All candidate worship is annoying, whether it's about Hillary, Trump, Bernie, Rubio, Paul etc. And, God, while I supported Bernie, many of his fanboys were simply cringeworthy.
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2016, 08:20:39 AM »

I'm not part of this, as you may know.

To me, Hillary is an unlikeable, lying scarecrow.
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LLR
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« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2016, 08:28:29 AM »

I'm not part of this, as you may know.

To me, Hillary is an unlikeable, lying scarecrow.

I'm not part of this, as you may know.

To me, Tender Branson is an unlikeable, creepy scarecrow.
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Devout Centrist
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« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2016, 11:21:45 AM »

Well, I can only speak for myself. I strongly support her bid for the presidency now, though she was not my first choice (that was Joe Biden, Jim Webb or my overall favorite would have been Jerry Brown). She has several short comings, but she's an able woman.
Much as love Jerry, he's just too old to run. I really like the guy, but he had his chance and unfortunately, he lost.


As for Clinton, I respect her tenacity and demeanor, if not all of her policies. Meeting her at a rally back in June basically got rid of all my doubts that she was anything but a capable, strong leader.
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BRTD
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« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2016, 11:44:53 AM »

For me it's because almost all criticism of Hillary is complete f[inks]ing bullsh!t and that just as much applies to from the left (example: jfern's posting history and any videos from H.A. Goodman or the "Sane" "Progressive") so I find it difficult to Have any antipathy to her. All these morons attacking her just makes me like her more and more.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2016, 11:46:43 AM »

For me it's because almost all criticism of Hillary is complete f[inks]ing bullsh!t and that just as much applies to from the left (example: jfern's posting history and any videos from H.A. Goodman or the "Sane" "Progressive") so I find it difficult to Have any antipathy to her. All these morons attacking her just makes me like her more and more.

To be fair, you'd say exactly the same thing about any Democratic nominee.

I don't feel "antipathy" toward Hillary. It's just another side of the coin called hackery.
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PresidentSamTilden
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« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2016, 01:24:44 PM »

Well, I like HRC because she seems fairly reasonable, and at least gives lip service to climate change and wealth inequality. She's not my favorite person, though, by any means. I just so happen to despise, and honestly, fear the other candidate.
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TDAS04
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« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2016, 03:15:34 AM »

I am a strong supporter of Hillary, even though she obviously isn't perfect.  Most of Atlas may support her over Trump, but I'm more enthusiastic than most.  There is more enthusiasm here for Obama, Sanders, and Biden (I also like all of them).

To the OP, you obviously put effort into your post and I'm glad you're not a Hillary hater, but the notion that Atlas "adores" and "venerates" Hillary is not remotely accurate.  It's puzzling why so many posters claim it does.  Maybe there's a prominent group of Hillary enthusiasts on the 2016 board, and they easily get under the skin of posters who aren't that excited about this particular candidate.  Even if Hillary enthusiasts can get overly hackish at times, they are far from the majority on this forum.  The Clintons are not the favorite Democrats on Atlas at all, yet people complain that the forum has been taken over by "Hillarybots" or that Hillary is the "forum darling" (you didn't say that, but other posters have in the past).

Before people make these complaints, they should at least take a look at the countless "opinion of Hillary Clinton" threads on the forum, most of which show her with an "HP" majority.  There's also a recent poll on the Individual Politics board where almost half of the voters think she's evil.  Hillary isn't exactly loved here.

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Gustaf
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« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2016, 07:24:43 AM »

Speaking for myself, I always preferred flawed candidates because they're more real to me and I'm very skeptical of "perfect" ones. That's one reason I liked McCain and was skeptical of Obama for example.

I feel that when I look at Clinton I'm looking at a real person that I can relate to, who has pros and cons. Overall, I'm incredibly impressed with her and what she's done. That comes with an acknowledgement of the flaws, of course.

Secondly, I feel she's subjected to tons of incredibly unreasonable attacks (as you outline in your post) and that causes me to argue more favourably for her than I otherwise would.

Finally, she's our only hope against the tide of fascism spearheaded by Trump and I'll gladly follow a much, much worse leader than Hillary Clinton against the personification of all the evils of humanity.
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Green Line
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« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2016, 11:33:59 AM »

We love Queen.
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Xing
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« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2016, 11:37:54 AM »

I've never been enthralled by Hillary. I like her well enough, but she's not my ideal candidate, as evidenced by the fact that I supported Bernie in the primaries. She does strike me as someone who is very careful and calculated. While that can be a good thing at times, it does make it seem as though shes reluctant to take many bold positions, which often needs to be done to make progress. That's the biggest reason why she's seen as the "status quo" candidate, and while I don't think that label is entirely fair, I do have my doubts that a Hillary Clinton presidency would bring about large-scale change (especially with a Republican congress.)

I do recognize, however, that she is currently the only qualified candidate in the race, and that the stakes are incredibly high. If she were running against a more generic Republican, I would probably still support her, since I do agree with her on most issues, but I would probably not do so enthusiastically. Since she's running against a truly vile man who is completely unfit to be president, however, I am supporting her with a great sense of urgency. I think Hillary will be a perfectly competent president, but I'm not sure whether or not she'll be a great president.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2016, 01:15:51 PM »

Secondly, I feel she's subjected to tons of incredibly unreasonable attacks (as you outline in your post) and that causes me to argue more favourably for her than I otherwise would.

It's true Hillary had been a subject of many ruthless attacks since the 90s. My doubts about Hillary are based on her performance as health care reform manager, Senator and SoS, which I find less than impressive. But most of the "criticism" she'd been receiving since the 90s is a total bull. Vince Foster, Whitewater, Benghazi blah blah blah.

Also, for all I care, she could've personally shot Vince Foster and then ate his liver. I'd still prefeer her over the orange douchebag.
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Phony Moderate
Obamaisdabest
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« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2016, 12:41:39 PM »

Of course voting is almost always little more than a matter of retaining a clear conscience. An individual vote is not going to sway the outcome but voting for your desired candidate (or against a candidate you despise) allows you to go to bed that evening knowing that you did your part.
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« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2016, 01:28:43 PM »

This is an exceptionally bourgeois site, and Hillary Clinton is a bourgeois candidate.
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ExtremeRepublican
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« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2016, 03:30:48 PM »

The more odd thing was the number of Trump supporters in the primary.  It almost seems like they were all just rooting for him to give Hillary an easier election.  This forum also has a thing for moderate Republicans and libertarian-leaners and absolutely loathes movement conservatives (look at how much Rubio, Walker, and Cruz were hated here in the primary).
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TDAS04
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« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2016, 05:38:00 PM »

Atlas is not in love with Hillary.
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Phony Moderate
Obamaisdabest
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« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2016, 04:23:15 AM »

Atlas is not in love with Hillary.

But the point is you'd be very hard-pushed to find another online forum in which she has as much support as on here.
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Democratic Hawk
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« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2016, 07:10:30 AM »

I'm not one to blow sunshine upon anybody's arse but Hillary Clinton is, infinitely, a much more rational choice
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2016, 07:43:15 AM »

Atlas is not in love with Hillary.

But the point is you'd be very hard-pushed to find another online forum in which she has as much support as on here.

Yes, but the two are not mutually exclusive in any way.
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Figueira
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« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2016, 06:54:45 PM »

I think part of it is that people actually like her for whatever reason, and part of it is a feeling that if we dare to criticize her on the Internet, it will somehow cause her to lose.
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